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[RP] Visit of Frederick de Reginar

 
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Frederick



Inscrit le: 13 Avr 2015
Messages: 5

MessagePosté le: Jeu Fév 01, 2018 10:21 pm    Sujet du message: [RP] Visit of Frederick de Reginar Répondre en citant

For some reasons, Frederick was always in a good mood whenever he had the occasion to travel to the south. Sun... Wine... People who shouted their neighbors hello at the end of the day instead of closing themselves in for the cold and each other... And last but not least, the magnificent city of Rome. Harbor of civilization! He took a moment to admire the architecture of the city, but then realized he was late for his appointment with the Cardinal, and rushed to the Office of the Chapel Registry. Rushing... but not too fast to withhold him from putting up his best musical performance... whistling.
Hopefully the cheery mood would continue after the conversation with Cardinal Kalixtus. Because even if he was whistling a playful tune, he had some worries. To the Swiss Guard next to the office, he bowed politely, and asked:


Would you be so kind to announce His Emminence Father Kalixtus that his guest has arrived? My name is Frederick de Reginar. Ehm. Prince. Of sorts. No, of Wetzlar I mean.
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Kalixtus



Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
Messages: 713

MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 04, 2018 10:24 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    The doors are open as always and the young acolythe opend the door for Frederick and Kali welcomed him in his office.

    He indicates him one seat near the desk and Kalixtus pour him some water in a goblet and offers him one of his lovely little delicacies he always served and which he already loved. There are some sweet and some spicy ones for every taste the right thing.

    Welcome Frederick, i really love this name, it is very royal and aristocratic. I hope there was a good journy to Rome. The weather is much better than in the north thats the real truth why we build the vatican here.


    Kali laughs about his own joke and drank from the water.

    So you have some problems with one chapel is it right?

_________________

Vice-Primat of the german zone, Prefect of the Chapel-Registry, Praepositus Generalis of the Jesuit Order
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Frederick



Inscrit le: 13 Avr 2015
Messages: 5

MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 04, 2018 8:04 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Frederick bowed politely when he was lead to the Cardinal. He tried one of the delicacies. Aie! A spicy one! No good, his mouth was burning... Quickly, some water... He drank the entire cup in one go. So far for noble appearances... Oops, and right at that moment, the Cardinal made a compliment about his name... Well...

Oh. Ehm. *cough* I thank you, Your Emminence. *double cough*

He took a minute to stop coughing, but then regained his ease.

Problems. Yes. Not because of the chapel, to be clear... But other circumstances have lead to a particular situation of the Chapel of Saint Sjnoel in Brabant. Just for reference, I have brought the available documents regarding the Chapel, it will make a possible search in the archives easier...

In any case. The Chapel was officially recognised in 1461, with His Emminence Tacuma de Giustiniani Borgia as Chaplain. I have been baptised there myself, with permission of the priest of my hometown at the time, Father Marsianus from Graz. Yet I do not know where this baptism may be recorded, and I have no baptism certificate.

The same goes for Nout Vlochtenberg. She has been baptised there in 1463, with the permission of Elequest von Staverden, Archbishop of Köln at the time. Of her, I know the baptism was recorded in the archives of the Dutch clergy. But she has no certificate either.

Unfortunately, His Emminence Tacuma has passed away last year. And to complicate matters even further, the fief of Brabant, the territory of the Chapel, was withdrawn by the Emperor. A very sad thing for me personally... Yet a month ago, I was granted a fief by His Imperial Majesty myself. As I am obviously attached to this other chapel, I was wondering if I could save it.

So, I have two questions...
- What can be done for Nout and myself, so our baptism is considered valid, once and for all?
- Is there a possibility wherein the Chapel of Saint Sjnoel could be considered as tied to my House, instead of to the noble fief of Brabant, provided I obtain the permission of Pippa Borgia, previous Duchess of Brabant? Or would it be lost once and for all?


Information:
The registration of the Chapel “Kapel van de Heilige Sjnoel”: http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/viewtopic.php?t=21468&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=81
Kapel van de Heilige Sjnoel: http://brabant.actieforum.com/f13-kapel-van-heilige-sjnoel
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Kalixtus



Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
Messages: 713

MessagePosté le: Mar Fév 06, 2018 5:24 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    There was a smiling on the lips of Kalixtus as he saw the reaction. This is the true meaning of control the situation and a wisdom of the element of water.

    Carefully he hears the problems he already has read in the letter before and there was a mask of thinking on his face.

    Now this chapel is not listed in the registry at all - but it seems that there is a chapel - you have shown me this - but it is not listed in the main registry. Thats bad but not a problem at all, we have to add this to the diocese of Utrecht.

    So let us solve the problems step by step:

      Now if the chapel St. Sjnoel is part of Utrecht - your baptism certificate and all the others must been signed by the bishop of Utrecht - he can write such documents signed on that day the sacrament is took place. With the consecration the chapel is ready to take place for any sacraments so it is not the main condition to have it registered in the main registry but we have to add them.

      All certificates are tasks of the bishops - you have to punch the bishop of utrecht or the archbishop of köln. Very important!

      Same for Nout.


    Problem number two:

      The chapel has always an owner and that is the suzerain of the fief on which the chapel is builded. Thats a bond i can't break. Even if the suzerain changed the chapel is part of the fief and the new suzerain, even if it is the emperor, is the new owner of the chapel - always.

      If the fief is destroyed we must show on which geographic part Brabant is now recreated as an fief. Then and only than we can break the bond between the old fief and the chapel and create a new one. But that would be a precedent.

_________________

Vice-Primat of the german zone, Prefect of the Chapel-Registry, Praepositus Generalis of the Jesuit Order
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Frederick



Inscrit le: 13 Avr 2015
Messages: 5

MessagePosté le: Mar Fév 06, 2018 9:40 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Carefully, Frederick listens to the Cardinal. He smiled politely, but there was still something on his mind.

Forgive me, Your Emminence. But I don't understand a few elements of your statements.

- You mentioned the chapel is not listed in the registry at all... While I have provided you the Roman register with the mention of it. Here is also the announcement of the registration. So what do you mean with "not present in the main register"?
- Furthermore, the Chapel has never been part of the Diocese of Utrecht. The owner of the fief, Duchess... ehm... Lady Pippa, was living in Graz during the consecration. Her uncle the Italian cardinal Tacuma - may he rest in peace - was named Chaplain and the language used was English. There was not a single tie with Utrecht... So I wonder why it should have been registered there?

I don't believe I was informed of what bishopry the Chapel belonged to. In any case... I believe this means my own baptism registration must be either be in the Italian registers, or in the German ones, if Father Marsianius registered it in Graz. As for Nout, I have received news her baptism was registered in Utrecht.

As for practical matters... I don't believe the Emperor is willing to take ownership of the chapel. So if there is no way of transferring it to me, I believe we may just consider the chapel inactive and leave it at that. I will consider opening a new one for my House or for the fief of Wetzlar.


Citation:

Attestazione dello Status Attivo per la Cappella di Saint Sjnoel

Noi, S.Em. Mons. Carlotta Isabell Borgia, detta "Kali_", Prefetto delle Cappelle,  per mandato della Congregazione per la Diffusione della Fede

facciamo annuncio

Che la Cappella Saint Sjnoel, è stata consacrata il giorno 22 Febbraio 1461, dal Cardinal Tacuma e lo stesso officerà come Cappellano.

Pertanto noi riconosciamo:

che dalla data odierna lo status della Cappella è Attivo

Fatto a Roma il IV giorno del III mese dell'anno di Grazia MCDLXI


S.Em. Mons. Carlotta Isabell Borgia detta "Kali_"
Prefetto delle Cappelle

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Kalixtus



Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
Messages: 713

MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 12, 2018 1:49 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    There is a big difference if the chapel is listed somewhere within the registery maybe on page X but not in the mainchapter on page 1. So there you can't find it on page 1. Thats what i try to express.

    But it is no problem - cause we can fix it - we have a signed document so it is just a mistake from former prefects of these office not a mistake of others.

    Okay i misunderstood your words i thought you would like to have the chapel in Utrecht. So the rules are clear. The chapel is part of the diocese in which the chaplain is living.

    For Example.

    I live in Mainz/Germany, so if this chapel now exist in Africa it would be part of my diocese if i am the chaplain. So it is not important for me in which part of the world the chapel exist only in which part the chaplain live.

    If you want obtain this chapel - find a cleric who wants to be chaplain in this chapel - but you also need the permission of the overlord - maybe today the Emperor.
    That are the rules.


    Your baptism registration must be within the german registry - but there is nothing. So Marsianius have forgotten to implement it.

    Luckly for you i am the master of the german registry of sacraments - so i could implement your baptism and sign a document for you.

    I need all information (Date, Godfather, Priest, Church, Location, Full name of the baptizand IG and RP) about your baptism than i think i can help you even if this is a little bit a grey zone but i like the grey.


    Kali smiled.

    If you can't find a chaplain nor the permission of the Emperor you have to implement an own chapel - if you want i can help you but first the main things - your baptism and the old chapel of St. Sjnoel.

_________________

Vice-Primat of the german zone, Prefect of the Chapel-Registry, Praepositus Generalis of the Jesuit Order
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Frederick



Inscrit le: 13 Avr 2015
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MessagePosté le: Mar Fév 13, 2018 2:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Frederick's face cleared up. Ahhh... a simple misunderstanding.

Thank you, Your Emminence, for your understanding and for providing solutions. I will see what the Emperor's plans are with the chapel. If he is willing to keep it open, I may find a chaplain for it.

Citation:
Date: May 20, 1462
Godmother: Philippa Vittoria "Pippa" Borgia
Priest: Tacuma de' Giustiniani Borgia (deceased)
Church: The Chapel of Saint Sjnoel
Location: Noble fief, the duchy of Brabant
Full name of the Baptized: Frederick de Reginar
(IG: Frederick, FichePersonnage.php?login=frederick)
Nihil Obstat obtained from father Marsanius from Graz.
(IG: FichePersonnage.php?login=marsanius )
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Kalixtus



Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
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MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 19, 2018 12:54 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    So i implement your baptism into the german registry and here is your official registration with your final certificate of baptism:
    Citation:

    Frederick, from Tacuma, at May 20th. 1462 in the Chapel St. Sjnoel, (GP Philippa Vittoria "Pippa" Borgia ), Certificate


    If we need this for Nout too i need the same informations.

_________________

Vice-Primat of the german zone, Prefect of the Chapel-Registry, Praepositus Generalis of the Jesuit Order
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