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Abuse of Power in the Diocese of Brighton

 
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Jacklionheart



Inscrit le: 27 Juin 2018
Messages: 11

MessagePosté le: Mer Juin 27, 2018 7:46 pm    Sujet du message: Abuse of Power in the Diocese of Brighton Répondre en citant

Hello, I'm Jack, I'm the new priest in Lewes, I'd like to talk with you if someone could suggest me what to do about what's happening in our Diocese.

Our Bishop JohnH3nry has put in the Diocesan Council only people of his IG clan and NOT in the Church Way. Is it fair? Being in the Diocesan Council helps who is in the Church way to get Divine Points to grow, a Bishop should help other people in order to make them all grow at the same way, not use the Council for his clan influence purposes.
Isn't it an abuse of power?

That's the situation right now:

Diocesan council
Johnh3nry
Aria (Diocesan Chamberlain) NOT IN THE CHURCH WAY
Amerys (Diocesan Chancellor) NOT IN THE CHURCH WAY
Destini (Diocesan Steward) NOT IN THE CHURCH WAY

Now the main problem is, in Lewes there will be soon the new elections of the priest, and he changed the old chancellor, the chancellor declares who are the new priests in town, since JohnHenry is candidated to the priest elections of Lewes, is it fair to put a friend to choose him in any way and not follow the will of the people?
_________________

✠ Baron of Castell on the Isle of Mann ✠ Judge of Sussex ✠ For all the friends: "the Ham Man"✠
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Jolieen



Inscrit le: 28 Mai 2018
Messages: 3052

MessagePosté le: Mer Juin 27, 2018 8:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Brother - basicly there is no rule in who to place on those positions. There is nothing stating that someone on those seats needs to be "church way" but I think the only limitation is that those people need to be baptised.

As I am myself just a young faithful not yet decided on a study path. But I work for the good of my diocese and I know my actions are supervised by my superiors.
For me abuse would be steeling money from the treasury for which is it at the moment hard to find proof as any diocese is basilcy working independently.

Although I do understand your doubts - maybe brother JohnHenry can clarify your doubts.
_________________

Cardinal-Deacon of the British Isles -Bishop In Partibus of Lamia - Prefect to the Villa of St.Loyat - Expert to the pontificial collages of Heraldry - Assessor to the Developing Churches
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Josephus
Cardinal
Cardinal


Inscrit le: 11 Juin 2009
Messages: 1312
Localisation: City of Kendal, Westmorland

MessagePosté le: Jeu Juin 28, 2018 5:25 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Brother Jack, welcome to Rome!

I too understand your grievances. But before I weigh in on the matter, I would like to ask some questions.

First. Before raising up your concerns here, have you tried asking Bishop John Henry directly? A dialogue between the both of you could have resolved many doubts already.

Second. A bishop over a diocese of many parishes will not be able to monitor all his Church Way members. Have you tried applying for a position in his diocesan council?

I have sent mail and invited Bishop John Henry in this discussion. I am hoping he will be here and give his side. Until then, I would like to believe that what we have is a simple matter of misunderstood policies.

My opinion will be given later.
_________________

From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks
[Cardinal Deacon of the British Consistory][Bishop In Partibus of Hieron][Primate of the British Isles][Parish Priest of Kendal]
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johnh3nry_



Inscrit le: 26 Juin 2015
Messages: 36

MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 29, 2018 12:05 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thank you Brother Josephus. I welcome the opportunity for discussion. Please let me fill in some of the information that Brother Jacklionheart has omitted.

First - The former Chancellor, my dear friend Rector Metis, asked to be replaced on the council due to his pending absence from the Diocese. He is traveling to Dover for the next 10 to 40 days and was concerned that he would not be available to approve the next Priest.

Second - Brother Jacklionheart is, in fact, simply upset that I am running again for Priest in Lewes. This is evidenced by the following emails that I received from him:


From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 10h16
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 Thanks for promising free confessions, I’ve put them free and in less than an hour three people booked all the slots. Thanks for letting other people play after you’ve been for years priest. Looking forward for the next Bishop elections.

From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 16h22
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 That’s a clear abuse of power John, and you’re gonna be put under trial by the County for what you are doing.

From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 15h08
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 What's wrong? If you have anything to tell me, just tell me. I don't understand why you're putting as Diocesan people who are not in the church way and only in your clan. I'm gonna discuss about it in the County Council and see what we can do about it. I'm always the Judge we can find a solution



There are others, but I won't bore you.


ThirdBrother Jacklionheart had an argument with Rector Metis in the tavern one evening and sent me this email asking me to remove Metis as Chancellor:




From Jacklionheart Date on 16 June 1466, 13h44
Subject Re: Greetings Expires on 08 July 2018 Your Excellency, High Bishop JohnHenry,
thanks for the message, I'm always glad to get a message from you,
yes we're doing masses every Sunday at the same hour, and for the 2nd one I changed it to monday morning since many people complained about the time of the old one. I raised the price of the confession up to 2 pounds, in order that sinners won't try to get all the free spots in few hours.
I'm confessing with Avlynn and doing a schedule every end of the week, she's doing her best too.
I'd like to ask you something, could you name me Diocesan Chancellor and Metis Diocesan Sergeant?
Thanks a lot Smile

See you
Have a wonderful day!

From Jacklionheart Date on 16 June 1466, 13h44
Subject Re: Greetings Expires on 08 July 2018 Your Excellency, High Bishop JohnHenry,
thanks for the message, I'm always glad to get a message from you,
yes we're doing masses every Sunday at the same hour, and for the 2nd one I changed it to monday morning since many people complained about the time of the old one. I raised the price of the confession up to 2 pounds, in order that sinners won't try to get all the free spots in few hours.
I'm confessing with Avlynn and doing a schedule every end of the week, she's doing her best too.
I'd like to ask you something, could you name me Diocesan Chancellor and Metis Diocesan Sergeant?
Thanks a lot Smile

See you
Have a wonderful day!

From Jacklionheart Date on 16 June 1466, 14h10
Subject Re: Re: Re: Greetings Expires on 08 July 2018 I was going to explain you why,
We were talkin in the tavern before me and him and we've had some arguments, I asked him if he wanted to join my clan many times, he said no so for kidding i said "okay i'm gonna send your name to the Inquisitors", but he thought i wasnt kidding and I don't know if he took it for real or less. Otherwise do something, leave him but be sure that he'll respect the will of the voters next time...

[\i]

Fourth After having quite enough of his threats, I removed Brother Jacklionheart from the Council for disloyalty. I replaced him with my loyal friend and highly competent former military General, Sir Garik. I also replaced Metis, by his request, and appointed Amerys of Arundel, who has considerable experience and is highly respected it matters of the state.

FifthAlthough I have attempted on multiple occasions to mentor Brother Jacklionheart I have failed to enlighten him to the fact that the Diocesan Chancellor does not actually appoint Priests of their choice. As you well know, they merely approve the will of the town as expressed by their prayers on election day. The new Chancellor, like the previous, will follow my instructions to accept the will of the town. This will also be the case in the next election, even though I am running. If the town prefers Jacklionheart to continue as Village Priest of Lewes, Amerys will approve it and I will not exercise my right to veto. This too, will come as a surprise to our wayward brother.

It is my hope that Brother Jacklionheart will understand the error of his ways and learn that threats and disrespect is not the Church Way.

I have nothing more to say.

Brother Johnh3nry







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johnh3nry_



Inscrit le: 26 Juin 2015
Messages: 36

MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 29, 2018 12:06 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thank you Brother Josephus. I welcome the opportunity for discussion. Please let me fill in some of the information that Brother Jacklionheart has omitted.

First - The former Chancellor, my dear friend Rector Metis, asked to be replaced on the council due to his pending absence from the Diocese. He is traveling to Dover for the next 10 to 40 days and was concerned that he would not be available to approve the next Priest.

Second - Brother Jacklionheart is, in fact, simply upset that I am running again for Priest in Lewes. This is evidenced by the following emails that I received from him:

From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 10h16
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 Thanks for promising free confessions, I’ve put them free and in less than an hour three people booked all the slots. Thanks for letting other people play after you’ve been for years priest. Looking forward for the next Bishop elections.

From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 16h22
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 That’s a clear abuse of power John, and you’re gonna be put under trial by the County for what you are doing.

From Jacklionheart Date on 27 June 1466, 15h08
Subject Re: Chat Expires on 15 July 2018 What's wrong? If you have anything to tell me, just tell me. I don't understand why you're putting as Diocesan people who are not in the church way and only in your clan. I'm gonna discuss about it in the County Council and see what we can do about it. I'm always the Judge we can find a solution

There are others, but I won't bore you.

Third Brother Jacklionheart had an argument with Rector Metis in the tavern one evening and sent me this email asking me to remove Metis as Chancellor:
From Jacklionheart Date on 16 June 1466, 13h44
Subject Re: Greetings Expires on 08 July 2018 Your Excellency, High Bishop JohnHenry,
thanks for the message, I'm always glad to get a message from you,
yes we're doing masses every Sunday at the same hour, and for the 2nd one I changed it to monday morning since many people complained about the time of the old one. I raised the price of the confession up to 2 pounds, in order that sinners won't try to get all the free spots in few hours.
I'm confessing with Avlynn and doing a schedule every end of the week, she's doing her best too.
I'd like to ask you something, could you name me Diocesan Chancellor and Metis Diocesan Sergeant?
Thanks a lot Smile

See you
Have a wonderful day!

From Jacklionheart Date on 16 June 1466, 14h10
Subject Re: Re: Re: Greetings Expires on 08 July 2018 I was going to explain you why,
We were talkin in the tavern before me and him and we've had some arguments, I asked him if he wanted to join my clan many times, he said no so for kidding i said "okay i'm gonna send your name to the Inquisitors", but he thought i wasnt kidding and I don't know if he took it for real or less. Otherwise do something, leave him but be sure that he'll respect the will of the voters next time...

Fourth After having quite enough of his threats, I removed Brother Jacklionheart from the Council for disloyalty. I replaced him with my loyal friend and highly competent former military General, Sir Garik. I also replaced Metis, by his request, and appointed Amerys of Arundel, who has considerable experience and is highly respected it matters of the state.

FifthAlthough I have attempted on multiple occasions to mentor Brother Jacklionheart I have failed to enlighten him to the fact that the Diocesan Chancellor does not actually appoint Priests of their choice. As you well know, they merely approve the will of the town as expressed by their prayers on election day. The new Chancellor, like the previous, will follow my instructions to accept the will of the town. This will also be the case in the next election, even though I am running. If the town prefers Jacklionheart to continue as Village Priest of Lewes, Amerys will approve it and I will not exercise my right to veto. This too, will come as a surprise to our wayward brother.

It is my hope that Brother Jacklionheart will understand the error of his ways and learn that threats and disrespect is not the Church Way.

I have nothing more to say.

Brother Johnh3nry
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Josephus
Cardinal
Cardinal


Inscrit le: 11 Juin 2009
Messages: 1312
Localisation: City of Kendal, Westmorland

MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 29, 2018 3:36 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Brother John, thank you very much for your immediate attention. The clarifications are very much welcome. I suggest you keep permanent records of the documents you presented, if possible, so that that easy reference can be sourced in future occasions.

I would like to hear any follow up from Brother Jacklionheart if he still has any.
_________________

From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks
[Cardinal Deacon of the British Consistory][Bishop In Partibus of Hieron][Primate of the British Isles][Parish Priest of Kendal]


Dernière édition par Josephus le Ven Juin 29, 2018 11:30 am; édité 1 fois
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Jacklionheart



Inscrit le: 27 Juin 2018
Messages: 11

MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 29, 2018 11:08 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I'm very glad that finally after many attempts i've had a reply from JohnH3nry. I'm a new priest in town, I'm trying to do my best to do masses, and confess everyday, and do the normal things a priest does.
I was not looking for any problems from the beginning. There was no trick on my part, I did not ask to be placed in the council of the diocese, nor any charge, all I wanted was that there were elections for the new priest done in a fair way. Cardinal Josephus, being new in this way and being in my first time as a priest, I did not know of the dynamics of the church.
How did it all started? Let's go with order:
First I received a strange message from the bishop telling me that he wanted to talk to me

From Johnh3nry, Lord of Fermented Malt Barley Date on 23 June 1466, 03h14
Subject Chat Expires on July 15th 2018 Father Jack,

I'm on my way back to Lewes. What is a good time to chat in the pub? We need to talk.

Father Johnh3ny

I answered to him that i would have talked with him whenever he'd wanted, but no answer from him.
Subsequently seeing him candidate as a priest and promising that he would put the confessions free I have a little 'unjustly altered, here I was wrong, because I should not have responded that way (I do not want to, the day after I had an exam at the university irl, maybe my emotional response was dependent on that)

After that message i sent him I saw the sudden change of the diocesan chancellor from what was before to a new one, and coincidentally I noticed that this new one was in the JohnHenry clan. I was told that those who had that role could choose who the priest was elected or not, then at that point, receiving no response from the bishop, seeing that more time passed and more appointed as diocesan people who were not in the way of the church and obviously believing that the will of the people would not have been respected in the elections, I decided to seek help elsewhere and eventually also here.

I looked for an answer even in the Sussex Inn opening a new thread where i asked for answers from him. The answers I had? No one from the bishop, but from one of the Diocesan Sergeants, perhaps sent by the bishop, but it does not matter, this is the answer given by one of them who is Sergeant of the Diocese regarding my questions:

Garik a écrit:
Three individuals enter the room where Jacklionheart and others are speaking. Two men and women with grim faces. They are dressed in knee-length maille hauberks, snow-white surcoats, girt with swords, and wearing white boots. The third is an unsettling individual. He wears full armor, polished to high heen, with snow-white shirt and trousers peeking out from the gaps in his armor. He wears an intricate damask sword on his left hip. His face has a great scar running through a cloudy eye on the left side of his face. A keen right eye is the color of a stormy sea. The sigil of the Sergeant of the Diocese of Brighton He speaks with a harsh Irish brogue ...
[the]
"You have business with the Bishop, my friend? Ya see, I was chosen Sergeant because I'm going to know my way around an army. I know you're all about these 'divine points' and 'levels' you're speaking about, I know I'm not interested in feathering my own nest, getting elected, or shutting anyone out of a duly-elected office. , maybe that addresses your concern. "[/i]

At the end, Garik's voice went flat and certain, without a hint of the interrogative. He stood solidly then, with his arms behind his back.


All I asked and asked in these days were answers about the next election of the priest, so that they were done fairly and that the will of the people was respected. I think none of us is a bad person, in the end we all want the good of the church, I do not care much about the Council of the Diocese, I'm not looking for offices, for me the Bishop can name who he wants, the important thing is that elections are made impartially, and that those chosen by the people are elected.
Regarding me I apologize for the answers given to the bishop a bit 'reckless and the result of the fact that I was new to the dynamics of the church, however, I would have liked to have answers to the many messages that I sent from the beginning and to not be left alone in my thoughts and fears. Nobody tried to do tricks or cheat, I just looked for answers to my questions from the beginning and I'm happy that after a few days the bishop finally showed up.
_________________

✠ Baron of Castell on the Isle of Mann ✠ Judge of Sussex ✠ For all the friends: "the Ham Man"✠
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Josephus
Cardinal
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Inscrit le: 11 Juin 2009
Messages: 1312
Localisation: City of Kendal, Westmorland

MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 29, 2018 5:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

When I was a young priest, there were no elections for one to be a parish priest. And not anyone who has twenty pounds can cast his lot and hopes that he gets enough votes to take on the title for 60 days. In my day, one has to be baptized as an Aristotelian; has to have sufficient knowledge of the faith through the seminary; has apprenticed under his bishop; ordained as a priest; must have chosen the path of the Church; and finally installed to his parish by his bishop under the authority of the Episcopal Council of England, Scotland and Ireland that has evaluated the merits of the candidate parish priest.

That may not be the case anymore and progress has had its way--I am hoping for the better. Though now one can hope to become parish priest through the election of the people, we who belong to the Aristotelian faith still try to uphold high standards to those we still have control of. Not for ourselves per se but in order for us, shepherds, to provide the quality of service and leadership that the flock entrusted to us deserves.

In my experience with parish elections, I have yet to hear that the will of the people has been overturned by a bishop or his council in the English speaking Church. Not by Aristotelians, Spinozists, Druids or by any other denomination. One need not think of conspiracy nor suspicion of greed in order to tell if an election was manipulated by the bishop or his council. Only this simple fact: a certain name has been announced to all who participated in the election, that a particular candidate has been chosen by the people to be the next parish priest; but after the period of evaluation another name has assumed the office. Then and only then that an election has been manipulated. Otherwise, the will of the people prevailed.

I am saddened that an issue like this has spilled in public and wounded not only the accused but the accuser as well. But most of all, the people that we wish to serve and protect are those who have been wounded the most.

I would like to thank John Henry and Jack Lionheart for airing their sides and I am hoping that everything has been clarified and resolved. It may not be instantaneous, but I am hoping that from now on, both the bishop and the parish priest could build a harmonious relationship for the sake of the faithful. I ask both of you to rebuild what has been broken and mend what has been torn.

This conflict ends here and any further issue should be directed to me.
_________________

From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks
[Cardinal Deacon of the British Consistory][Bishop In Partibus of Hieron][Primate of the British Isles][Parish Priest of Kendal]
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Blazingwill



Inscrit le: 04 Avr 2016
Messages: 1432
Localisation: Salisbury, Devon (England)

MessagePosté le: Sam Juin 30, 2018 9:32 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Eminence Josephus, please allow me to address the following request of Brother Jacklionheart:

Jacklionheart a écrit:
All I asked and asked in these days were answers about the next election of the priest, so that they were done fairly and that the will of the people was respected. I think none of us is a bad person, in the end we all want the good of the church, I do not care much about the Council of the Diocese, I'm not looking for offices, for me the Bishop can name who he wants, the important thing is that elections are made impartially, and that those chosen by the people are elected.


I know that Bishop John has mentioned it above but without taking any sides, I wish to provide a little clarification. I speak as Bishop-Elect of Portsmouth and from what I have seen at the previous elections.

Brother Jacklionheart, the bishop nor his chancellor has the power to choose who becomes the parish priest(ess). The only option that we have is this:

    *the bishop can veto an election and this triggers a second round in the election. If the candidate is voted on again, he is automatically accepted.
    *the Chancellor has only the power to accept the results of the election.


This being said, as bishop or chancellor, we do not have the power to go against the people's will. We cannot choose to name someone else that was voted for. However, back in the old days, the bishop had all the power to choose who he wants.

Back then he could even be a dictator and go against the will of the Conference of the ESI bishops.

As Eminence Josephus has mentioned, please do contact him with regards to the council positions if needed.

_________________

Metropolitan Archbishop of Canterbury | Marquess of Exminster | Earl of Bassetlaw | Viscount of Osney
Prefect of the office of Relics
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