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[RP imperial elections] Audience with Cesare Copona
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Arnarion
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 15, 2020 9:38 pm    Sujet du message: [RP imperial elections] Audience with Cesare Copona Répondre en citant

Located on the right bank of the Tiber River opposite to the Mount Vatican, the imposing building of the pontifical chancery was interspersed with courtyard and gardens which gave a fresh air in this summer which did not want to end. A large room in open air had been settled in the middle of all of this luxuriance, from which emanated streams of cultivated flowers, fruits and vegetables from kitchen gardens as well as some exotic smells from elsewhere. Sometimes one could saw a multicolored parrot flying from palm tree to palm tree, others a monkey. But the most common were the ducks splashing around in the imposing fountain built in the center. On three levels surmounted by a statue of a majestic duck, it gently spat water in musical laps bringing soft humidity to the warm air of Roman life.
Chairs, armchairs and other stalls had been installed to welcome the guests with dignity for the audience of candidate Cesare Copona.

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cesare.copona



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MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 16, 2020 9:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

And the future emperor came after having received an invitation from the gentle cardinal Kalixtus. There, he saw his cousin, the duck one. He came at him and smiled at him.

I hope I am not to early. How are you?
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pamelita
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MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 16, 2020 10:49 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The Chancellor of the Inquisition, entered the hall and she felt a little embarrassed as she was the first to arrive, but she was sure that her colleagues would not be late, so she greeted with a gesture of the chief The candidate to the imperial throne and Cardinal Arnarion ...

What a pleasure to see you again brother...

Then she addressed the Candidate and said:

I am pleased to meet you, I introduce myself, I am Alexandra Pamela Cagliostro d'Altavilla, Chancellor of the Holy Inquisition and I can't wait to hear your program.

She then asked a valet to have a cold drink and sat down at one of the tables waiting for the beginning of the meeting.
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Visitate l'Abbazia Cistercense di Fornovo
Chancellor of the Holy Inquisition
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 16, 2020 11:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus smiled at all the ducks. Welcome to Duckburg. It was Arnarion's world. He liked him for exactly these attitudes. For the meeting with Cesare it was clear that Filou or even Xerxes had to stay at home. He didn't want to be responsible if the black panther suddenly started the duck hunt. No, no, that was not in his interest.

    Kalixtus, followed by his two secretaries, entered the premises and naturally greeted the host with a kiss on the cheek, as is customary in their common home. At least in certain parts.

    Then he smiled at Cesare. Welcome to the Eternal City, dear Cesare. I know Rome is not foreign to you, and of course most cardinals are not. Kalixtus chuckled and looked for a place where he could place his documents about Cesare, his election campaign and of course about the Empire.

    We will wait, I am sure there will be a few more to come. After all, we have a few more cardinals in Rome whose area of activity is the Sacrum Romanum.

    Gently he smiled and ordered a goblet of fresh water from one of the servants. He needed it very urgently.

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Fenice
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 17, 2020 6:35 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Cardinal Fenice, Chancellor of the Congregation for External Affairs, entered the room smiling and waving. She knew the guest candidate, so the greeting was not too formal.

Pax et bonum, it is a pleasure to meet you here in these circumstances.

And addressing the Cardinals already present she added
Dear brothers, in these days we are running from a meeting to a celebration...
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Ven Sep 18, 2020 11:31 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus looked at all the participants and then said:

    My friends, let us begin the discussion. If colleagues are going to join us. We will take a protocol so that everything essential remains to be read.

    You have the floor, Cesare. The Holy Curia is listening to you. After your remarks I would like to enter into discourse so that, with a little luck, we can have a constructive conversation where we can explore our points of view and possibilities.

    As Vice-Dean, I am mainly present in the role of moderator, but this is limited here, as I would like to have a conversation among like-minded people, because in the end everyone here is interested in making life and the society of the SRING with all its people, more meaningful for everyone and bringing it into harmony with God's teachings.

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Gropius
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MessagePosté le: Sam Sep 19, 2020 4:40 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Cardinal Della Scala almost sneaked into the hall and sat down, listening.
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Cardinale-vescovo † Alto Commissario Apostolico Cancelliere della Congregazione per il Nuovo Apostolato † Primate del Santo Impero † Arcivescovo di Pisa e Trier † Governatore del Patrimonio di Tito † Marchese di Santa Marinella † Conte di Civitavecchia ♝Il cielo e la terra♗
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cesare.copona



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MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 21, 2020 1:40 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

And all of those gentle cardials sat down. During their entries, Cesare was kind of talking with a duck. But he alsway showed the respect to each one of these cardinals by bowing in front of them. To Pamelita he said :"the pleasure is mine, Eminence", to Kalixtus he said "I'm delighted to see you there" and to Fenice he said :"The ambianceis more pleasant than in the casa Borgia, I'm glad as well" and wen came the time to begin, and cleared his throat and a new cardinal arrived. He bowed at him, and began.

His Eminence Kalixtus already said it : the all of us want to make life more meaningful for everyone and bringing it into harmony with God's teachings. What could I say more after that? And most of all : what could I say more relevant?

This is a hard task I will try to complete. I will begin by highlighting what I want about the Chuch in my propgramme, then I will emphasise come answers I've already given to people in the provinces.


Citation:
DIPLOMACY :
Make the Empire a respected and credible partner, by moulding the three following pillars : neutrality, availability and honorability.
Strengthen diplomatic exchanges with our neighbors to better control and protect our borders.
Provide support to provincial chancelleries when they request it to boost exchanges and stimulate diplomacy at each level.


I know the main question : why is there no point for Church in the programme? This is what I answered : my absence of a religious paragraph is intentional. Indeed, I will not decide for the spiritual life of the imperial citizens : it is the role of the Church. Everyone has his own domain. As far as relations between the Empire and the Papal State are concerned, this is pure diplomacy, so I can only mention my diplomatic programme. There are not many lines, but this will be the longest work during the whole kingdom. I am a pontifical noble by merit, and I work for peace. All that matters is the serenity and perenniality of the imperial citizens. I think the gamble is very risky to decide in advance what to do with our Holy Mother, given the long conflicts. I will take advantage of opportunities to open up with my neighbours as long as it is in the interests of the imperial citizens.

So someone asked me aboute heterodoxies, his question was very interesting by the way, and I give you the whole paragraph even though he was just asking how I will act concerning the others religions : I read your answer which, allow me, did not convince me. There are documents, which are called concordats, drawn up and signed by the Empire and the Church.
So to answer "I will not decide for the spiritual life of the imperial citizens: it is the role of the Church" seems to me very reductive and not at all satisfactory for spinozists and averroists - imperial citizens of whom you say you want serenity - who do not want their spiritual life to be decided by a church of which they are not part.
How do you plan to behave towards other religions?

So my answer was : There has not been a concordat between the Church and the Empire for more than three years. And I repeat: I will not decide for the spiritual life of the imperial citizens, it is the role of the Church. Also for spinozists and averroists. You have your religion, your clergy. You respect your clergy. It is he who guides your spiritual life. It does not matter your religion: it is up to the Church of this religion to take care of your spiritual life. This is not the role of the laity.

I am an Aristotelian, and my position in relation to other religions is that of an Aristotelian : everyone is free to practise their own worship at home. To preach any heterodoxy is forbidden, and the Empire is Aristotelian. But no one will persecute you during my reign as long as we live in respect, otherwise he will have to face imperial justice because the emperor must defend all citizens, and later he will face justice from the Most High, blessed be he, Eternal, our God.

I will not highlight what is going on in Modena currently, for the discussion is not over, but a lot of hate and rancour still remain overthere, which sadens me. Hence I kindly ask you : what could we do to stop that?
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus made a few notes.

    But that is of course only half the truth. The emperor is a Defender of the Faith by the Grace of God himself. How do you intend to combat the continuing development of heretical tendencies throughout the empire?

    How do you deal with the province of Styria, which is an open heretical province and swears allegiance to the Empire?
    How do you deal with heretical vassals of the empire?
    How do you deal with the Lions of Judah? Switzerland as a whole.
    How do you deal with the dioceses that are "owned" by the Empire? This includes the diocese of Geneva.

    What is your statement - that the questions of faith are to be answered by the Church compatible with the idea of the Bulle Aurea, which extends questions of faith and answers them by the state?

    You see it is not all diplomacy with the Holy See or spiritual guide by the bishops of CESE. Your duty is much higher much more important, more deepen into the cosmos of society.
    As you know i am a humble man and we all are very sad to see that you don't think that Church don't need a position in your program. I am sure we all got surprised to see that we are not worthy to get into your vision of empire - we as Church are more than just the Holy See who is the partner on issues of State - but we have here Archbishop Arduino Della Scala - Primat of CESE. He is in charge of the faithful of all children of gods within Empire. Fenice, Pamelita or me too bishops and archbishops of dioceses. People who trust us as their spiritual leader - but we all suffer from a state that is weak, that try to trick us and that try to say we are useless shit.

    That is the image we all got as we saw we are not worthy to be more than just nothing in your program. Cesare - don't let me think so. Give me more than a naive version of an Empire divided in spiritual and secular issues. The Empire is always more.

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cesare.copona



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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 22, 2020 12:01 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

But that is of course only half of fallacies.

The emperor is divina favente clementia electus, which means elected only in the favour of divine mercy, and he becomes saint emperor by the grace of God only after the representative of God, His Holiness, crowns him.

Defender of the faith is a status, given by the Church -the pope himself, after acts and prooves of defense of the true Faith. Was Freas a defender of the faith? He was excommunicated. And my beloved godson Thibaud? He created the prohibited Bulla Aurea. Can you state here, claimt it, they were defenders of the faith? They weren't. Because of their acts, and because of the main reason : the status is not automatically reattached to one unic crown. Don't you think if tommorrow the king of Irland goes in crusade and unify a lot of countries in our faith he wouldn't deserve that status? What would His Holiness say? "Sorry, you did more for us in centuries than any ruler, but the defender of the faith is the emperor"? I do not hope so.

The defender of the faith makes war : I don't want any war. Hence I am under no pressure from a status that I will never deserve. I am a peace worker, and I demand peace.

To answer your questions :

Styria is a vassal. The emperor owes the duke an oath pledged under the witnessing of God to fufill his duties of liegelord, he can't break it : what does the Church do to help this vassal which is in a wrong spiritual path and needs help?

This is the exact same thing for all of the other heretical vassals. How did they become heretical if they weren't born heretical? What did bring them on the path of the unaned creature? How can the churchmen deal with it, how can they help them? Why should the emperor act against his lost brothers and sisters when the Church has to heal them?

About Swizterland : it is a foreign country. They are all foreign countries, all of the cantons, such as France. France's struggling with heretism too. Do I have to manage France as well? Why should the Empire interfere in the internal affairs of the other countries? No, no no no. The real question, about the Lions of Judas is : why is my people, my aristotelician brothers and sisters, imperial citizens, still bleeding, dying and suffering because of a question handled our Mother Church?

Some dioceses are under control, for the decision of the bishop only, of the emperor. Why? This why is very important : if it is the will of the local parishionners hence taking back the diocese to Rome will just irritate them, and they will provoke our Mother Church by taking it back as well, which will create instability within the Empire. So I need to know the exact reason for each diocese. And, most of all, the dioceses are the matter of the Church, not the Empire.

After having said all of this I've got two questions : are you asking an emperor, or a pontifical noble? Why should the Empire manage internals matters of the Church?


Citation:
What is your statement - that the questions of faith are to be answered by the Church compatible with the idea of the Bulle Aurea, which extends questions of faith and answers them by the state?


I don't understand this.

Citation:
we all are very sad to see that you don't think that Church don't need a position in your program. I am sure we all got surprised to see that we are not worthy to get into your vision of empire


I will better explain myself to avoid any new misunderstanding. I've never thought nor stated the Church is not worthy to get into my vision of the Empire, au contraire. The point is : the Empire's got several diplomatical issues with the Papal State, and I do know my place regarding the spiritual life. The Magna Carta states the Empire is aristotelician and roman. Hence the duty of the emperor is to act and live as a roman aristotelician. Our faith teaches us tolerance. A wise man, clever than ever, who was my teacher in theology, said to me : "Aristotelism is as a tree whose roots plunge deep into the soil. This soil is composed of God's Creation : the supernatural Order, the domain of the divine essence, the soul and the natural Order, the physical Order, that of material life. Each fruit is given by the grace of God and cannot live without the necessary nutrients provided by the tree. Each branch produces several fruits that ripen over time. But it happens that the tree can become sick from some parasites. These parasites feed on the tree, so that the nutrients from the soil no longer reach the top of the tree. Gangrene takes hold of it and quickly spreads to a few branches and reaches the fruit. The fruits, which were previously beautiful and healthy, wither, die and fall off.

The Church is the guardian of this tree. In the beginning, she watches over the ripening of its fruits, beautifies them, and protects them. If they become sick, she takes care of them and heals them. But sometimes the illness is too pronounced and threatens the whole tree with death. Then the sick branches must be cut down so that the tree can survive."

I kindly ask you to not request the Empire to do the work of the Church. Churchmen are here to heal, pontifical nobles and orders are here to cut. You don't need the Empire. Without the orders His Holiness has got a hundred of vassals. This is a huge army. You can ask me a lot of things, such as making war against heretics, but as viscount of Morlupo, not as emperor. I will involve my people living in Morlupo for you, I won't make the imperial citizens bleeding and killing each other, between brothers and sisters, no emperor can. And by "no emperor can" I mean : all of the emperors have to not.

So why people did trick you and fool you? Precisely because you're still living in the old good times where Church and Empire were like one, together, with no division between spiritual and secular. So they used your beliefs to offer you dreams. I am not a liar. I am not a manipulator. I am honest and I am telling the truth : today things have changed.

Your Eminence Kalixtus, you were imperial councillor of spiritual matters since Thibaud, and primat of CESE at the exact same time. Can you explain me, a potential future emperor, what did you do during those two years and what is it waiting for me? You're asking here requests for Rome, but you're the only one here who better knows eveything within the SRING and who was able to act. So, please, can you expose us how are the imperial persons? How do they handle the spiritual life? What do they think about our Church, depending on where do they live? During this campaign someone called the Bulla Aurea "sacro saint" : how could aristotlician think that? How could the Church help those people who just need help?

The emperor, as a true aristotelician, can help the Church to heal lost spirits. But he won't overthrow the Church. So I can't write anything about Church in my programme for the reasons already explained. Wev'e got a lot of diplomatical work to handle together, Empire and Papal State, and the emperor is not here to manage the work of the churchmen.
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 22, 2020 2:29 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus listened attentively and he wrote down a few important things. It was important for the decision making process.

    You bite into the political structure of the Pontifical State, Cesare. But the church is much more than the political structure. It is much more than that.

    Clerics are attacked, slandered and scared-off, killed and much more.
    Heretics are ennobled and much more.

    You say this is all up to the church - but what should the church do? Only a few souls can be converted through words. Our weapons are Scripture and the truth, but deaf ears cannot hear the truth.
    The state still has a legal responsibility to fight heresies. At least it used to be. Crimes against clerics were also severely punished. In the meantime, an impression is emerging that the state seems to care nothing about it.
    The pope crowns himself or he leaves the crowning to someone else - he gives the order to someone who crowns in his name, that makes the emperor, whether crowned by the pope or his commissioner, the defender of the faith. There is no excuse in responsibility - the pope does not let himself be talked into the intention - just as little as the curia. It would be fatal to believe that the Curia has not examined the work of all the emperors in a comprehensive and sustained manner. All its decisions are made accordingly. It is not for you to judge whether they were defenders of the faith or not - only the Mother Church and her Pope - as you have realised. It is advice from me to orientate yourselves to this judgement.

    War is holy when it is waged in the name of the faith in its defence, as the prophet Aristotle made clear. Of course you know this, so your statement is questionable - you do not want to defend the faith and therefore do not aspire to such a status, through the Holy Mother Church. You have thus de facto disqualified yourself.

    The state is the arm that must defend the faith, which we as clerics can only do with the word - but a sword must defend the word and the one who speaks it for the good of the Aristotelian Occident.


    Citation:
    Styria is a vassal. The emperor owes the duke an oath pledged under the witnessing of God to fufill his duties of liegelord, he can't break it : what does the Church do to help this vassal which is in a wrong spiritual path and needs help?


    You have not answered my question - how can a heretic swear an oath to an Aristotelian emperor. An emperor who describes himself as a zealous member of Aristotelism?
    But an emperor who doesn't want to be a defender of the faith at all can of course accept Styria and all other heresies. I am very curious about the answer.


    Citation:
    This is the exact same thing for all of the other heretical vassals. How did they become heretical if they weren't born heretical? What did bring them on the path of the unaned creature? How can the churchmen deal with it, how can they help them? Why should the emperor act against his lost brothers and sisters when the Church has to heal them?


    There are especially many and various reasons for heresies I recommend reading the doctrines of the Holy Mother Church and the texts on the abysses, heresiology and effluents. These explain very comprehensively the damage, the nature and the problems of heresy.
    Once again - the sword protects the Word - you deny the sword and point out that the Word must fight. This is impossible.
    The State has a duty and I call upon the State to face up to this duty.


    Citation:
    About Swizterland : it is a foreign country. They are all foreign countries, all of the cantons, such as France. France's struggling with heretism too. Do I have to manage France as well? Why should the Empire interfere in the internal affairs of the other countries? No, no no no. The real question, about the Lions of Judas is : why is my people, my aristotelician brothers and sisters, imperial citizens, still bleeding, dying and suffering because of a question handled our Mother Church?


    Again, you are not answering my question. Either because you cannot or do not want to answer it. You do not know the structures of conflicts or you do not want to see them. Ignoring them does not bring you any reward. You must realise that peace must always be defended. You cannot be a pacifist on the throne and close the gates to your empire and hope and pray. You must realise that there will always be pressure groups attacking and attacking and challenging you and the SRING to war. So you ask me questions instead of answering your own. I am entertained but not enthusiastic, Cesare.

    Citation:
    Some dioceses are under control, for the decision of the bishop only, of the emperor. Why? This why is very important : if it is the will of the local parishionners hence taking back the diocese to Rome will just irritate them, and they will provoke our Mother Church by taking it back as well, which will create instability within the Empire. So I need to know the exact reason for each diocese. And, most of all, the dioceses are the matter of the Church, not the Empire.


    Why do you need a reason for the question of dioceses - they do not belong to the state - they belong to Holy Mother Church. There is no value that you defend, because you do not want to defend.
    You are disregarding your own rules - when you say that the property of the church and the duty of the church is a matter reserved for the church. If you reduce the church to the papal states and now you say about the dioceses, you are trying to gather information. Is it not enough to know what the Church demands?

    Now to your two essential questions of understanding:

    Questions 1 and 2 are related:
    Question 1 refers to the Bull Aurea - a secular law - which in its content expands faith-based questions to the minimum and has been condemned as heresy by the CSO and the Pope. They are on the Vatican index.

    Question 2 refers to the fact that we, as the Church, find it surprising that there is no separate and clear point in your programme that takes up all these problems we are talking about. You refer to the Papacy and the Holy See. But you forget the whole area of pastoral care, inner-imperial problems, heresy, defence of the faith and the Church against attacks from within and without. You misunderstand the situation of the nation.
    The whole Bulla Aurea complex and the conflict with the Church is dismissed as a diplomatic trifle. The question of the dioceses is not taken up at all.

    Tell me Cesare how you want to solve it - how you want to spread peace if you don't even take up the problems, name them and offer solutions.

    You exclude yourselves from the responsibility of being defenders of the faith, because you do want to be an emperor of peace not of war. You do not answer my questions, but you ask a lot of your own questions, which you have to answer.

    I am irritated.


    Citation:
    I dislike a lot when one misrepresents my words or uses them -willingly or not- to distort the truth. Please, with all the respect I owe you, never do that again.


    That is very simple - I will never do it again unless you give me a reason for it, Cesare. In this case, unfortunately, the result is that in your "answer" you list all our fears, and therefore it is almost no wonder that you have not reserved a programme point for the church, because either knowingly or unknowingly you ignore the problem points or you do not want or have no solution. You are only pointing to structures to take leave of your own responsibility, this is not a common path - this is a dividing path.

    Citation:
    Your Eminence Kalixtus, you were imperial councillor of spiritual matters since Thibaud, and primat of CESE at the exact same time. Can you explain me, a potential future emperor, what did you do during those two years and what is it waiting for me? You're asking here requests for Rome, but you're the only one here who better knows eveything within the SRING and who was able to act. So, please, can you expose us how are the imperial persons? How do they handle the spiritual life? What do they think about our Church, depending on where do they live? During this campaign someone called the Bulla Aurea "sacro saint" : how could aristotlician think that? How could the Church help those people who just need help?


    Cesare, I was surprised that you didn't come to me earlier until you asked me for advice - you should have asked for everything you wanted to know before starting your programme. I am the pastor of the SRING, all its people. My soul burns when I see which heresies are spreading through inactive rulers. I have fought for solutions and I continue to do so. The structures of the empire are weakened by the poison of democratic disempowerment of the decision makers.
    This is something I cannot influence as a church leader, because this is a decision of the state.
    As a religious adviser, it is difficult to represent and defend the beauty of dogma against the majority of ministers - I did it nevertheless. But in the political education process I am truly only one voice - one single voice. The office of Religious Adviser is a secular office I fulfil it with the dignity inherent of the truth of the Holy Mother Church. By preaching what the Word says. I advise emperors on matters of war and peace. In the last two years we have managed to keep the faith even without a Concordat and with Bulla Aurea. But this state of affairs is far from ideal. The foundations are eroding and one day it will destroy everything we know and love. The state may think it can live without the church, but the people do not think so. Heresies will lead to civil wars. Blood will be shed Cesare. You will experience it, if we do not create order together church and state.

    But you do not want to be that sword, you want to close the gates and give up responsibility, you do not want to do anything to defend the faith.


    Citation:
    The defender of the faith makes war : I don't want any war. Hence I am under no pressure from a status that I will never deserve. I am a peace worker, and I demand peace.

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MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 24, 2020 9:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Dear Cesare, I would like to know if you intend to take a public stance against the heretical law that has also been put on the index and ask for its amendment or repeal. I am referring to the Bulla that the empire calls "Aurea", never a more inadequate name.
Or if you intend to do as your predecessor did before you, i.e. stay motionless or blame others.

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Cardinale-vescovo † Alto Commissario Apostolico Cancelliere della Congregazione per il Nuovo Apostolato † Primate del Santo Impero † Arcivescovo di Pisa e Trier † Governatore del Patrimonio di Tito † Marchese di Santa Marinella † Conte di Civitavecchia ♝Il cielo e la terra♗
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pamelita
Cardinal
Cardinal


Inscrit le: 15 Oct 2013
Messages: 3038
Localisation: Ducato di Milano

MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 24, 2020 10:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The cardinal had remained silent listening to the debate between his colleagues and the candidate, but in the end he had some questions still to ask.

Dear Cesare, are you going to take a stand against, or ask for the amendment of the law preventing the provinces from authorizing armies of holy armies.

And no less important: what position do you intend to take towards the provinces and imperial subjects who sign agreements or otherwise consort with the criminal and heretical organization ONE?

Finally, will you keep in your council people who oppose the church, who attack it publicly and try to destroy it?

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Visitate l'Abbazia Cistercense di Fornovo
Chancellor of the Holy Inquisition
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cesare.copona



Inscrit le: 07 Fév 2017
Messages: 25

MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 24, 2020 11:57 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I will be short :

If you want the Empire to take care itself of the matters of the Church hence you're giving the whole control of the Church to the Empire. I call it heresy. The Empire is not here to interfere in the business of our Mother Church, and the Empire has not to be forced to handle spiritual matters. The Empire is a secular state, which rules secular things. Being pious or aristotelician doesn't mean doing the job of the churchmen, it only means helping them with your own tools, not theirs.

But.

It seems Your Eminences and His Holiness already decided to give the support of the Church to someone else.


Citation:
Von Oberon. Gesendet am am 24 September 1468
Betreff Brief des KardinalsLäuft am 11 Oktober 2020 abAristotelische Grüße, XXX

Ich schreibe Euch diese Zeilen bezüglich der Wahlen des Kaisers, um Euch darüber in Kenntnis zu setzen, dass die Kirche den Kandidaten Rapheall als beste Option betrachtet. In diesem Sinne sind alle Kirchenvertreter, so auch die Diözesanadministratoren dazu angehalten diesem Kandidaten ihre Stimmen zu geben.

Hochachtungsvoll
Vater Oberon.


First of all, I am quite surprised to not see any official announcement about this decision from the Church, as clearly stated.

And in a second time, I am a lot surprised to not having received this letter myself, as a clerk of our Church, neither anyone of my archidiocese, nor anyone of the diocese of Toul too, for example.

Or is it the Roman and Aristotelic Church, or did the bishop Oberon created his own Church in Germany?
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Kalixtus
Cardinal
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Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
Messages: 4356

MessagePosté le: Ven Sep 25, 2020 1:14 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    I don't expect short answers Cesare. I expect full answers on the subject of questions we asked.

    Citation:
    It seems Your Eminences and His Holiness already decided to give the support of the Church to someone else.

    First of all, I am quite surprised to not see any official announcement about this decision from the Church, as clearly stated.


    You are right, the Vatican did not decided who they will support - but to be honest this is not what the letter said. Neither does he further describe a Vatican order. However, a punctual announcement by the Vatican on the question of personal preference or dislike or neutrality would be helpful. However, such a quick announcement, if one were to be made, would only make sense if the questions asked here were answered in time and comprehensively - which they certainly would not be. Much to my regret.

    About the letter:
    The letter does not give an order, but rather a recommendation which was given to his staff by Eminence Oberon.

    It is not an election recommendation for all the faithful. This must be distinguished. Nevertheless, such a letter is unfortunate, although not entirely unexpected on the day of the opening of the elections. Unless the Vatican issues orders, the question remains open and is often decided on a case-by-case basis.

    But of course a recommendation of the Vatican is much more valuable than the recommendation of a single cardinal and breaks it. The hierarchy of the church remains untouched.

    But I am surprised that you attach so much importance to this, Cesare. I had hoped that we could talk about the issues. After all, the election will not be won by the voice of a few clerics but by the voice of the people of the SRING.

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