L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Urbain_mastiggia]

Je suis d'accord avec son éminence Roderic, à ce point près que je me demande de la logique d'adresser des condoléances aux fidèles qui ont perdu leur monarque puisque celui-ci était excommunié. Ne devrions nous pas plutôt leur adresser un soutien indéfectible de Rome dans ces heures sombre, sans mentionner le trépas de l'impératrice ou des condoléances ?
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I agree with his eminence Roderic, except that I wonder about the logic of sending condolences to the faithful who have lost their monarch since he was excommunicated. Shouldn't we rather send them unwavering support from Rome in these dark hours, without mentioning the death of the empress or condolences?
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[Fenice]

[Pie de Valence]

Je suis entièrement d'accord avec leurs émincences Roderic, Urbain et Fenice.
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"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Kalixtus]

Just to inform you and maybe to make clear how urgent a reaction from this body is.

[Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia]

I agree with Cardinal Roderic's plan and the addition of His Eminence Urbain Mastiggia.
As a Sacred College we must ban this funeral as soon as possible because it is in open breach with Canon Law.
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+ Ettore Asburgo D'Argovia
Cardinale-Presbitero di San Barnaba a Ripa
Decano del Tribunale della Rota Romana
Ufficiale dell'Ordine pontificio di Nicola V

[Fenice]

I think we must not attack.

Our position must be different, we must support the Aristotelians, not go against the empire, otherwise we will reinforce their way of doing things.
When you get dragged into a direct counter argument, you give importance to your attacker and put him in an advantageous position. Instead, let us focus on what we have to offer that is positive.
We excommunicated the empress, if we now say that her funeral is an act against Dogma, we will be accused again. Let us try, instead, to say things differently, from an opposite point of view.

The Aristotelian Church supports and comforts those who believe in God and the Prophets, those who have Faith, those who find strength and independence in Dogma and the Church and who do not fear the threats of those who only thirst for earthly power.
The Church does not engage in politics, she is concerned exclusively with the things of the soul, with closeness to God the loving Creator.
The Church comforts and protects, she does not attack.
The Church also asks God for mercy for enemies, for those who have lost their way and only know how to hate, without respect for what is sacred.
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[Felipe...]

The mere fact that some of my colleagues believe that allowing a pantomime funeral for an excommunicated woman to be held in the cathedral of the capital of the Empire is an acceptable possibility is, to me, a clear indication of the decadence of the Church.

It contravenes dogma, it contravenes the canons, it contravenes our most sacred oaths, it contravenes the very principles for which we have so often stood, and for which some of those present have even been persecuted, such as Cardinal Tymothé in France with the sacre de la reine.

This is the time for each of us to consider whether we are on the side of faith or of political convenience. If priests can no longer defend religion, what remains for the Church?
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_______.______Sanctae Mariae Rotundae cardinalis episcopus | Archiepiscopus Burdigalensis
__________..Secretarius brevium ad Principes | Sanctae Sedis Vice-cancillarius et Magnus Auditor

[Fenice]

Felipe, I don't care about political convenience, I care about Aristotelian faithful and about the Church.
A clash is not for the good of the Aristotelians and the Chuch, it's just a clash. We must be pastors, not only legists.
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[Kalixtus]

I have tried to explain this argument to Cardinal Felipe several times, Sister. He will not understand or see it.
That we take direct responsibility for the souls who find themselves in this very world. That we must try to put up bulwarks, as I am trying to do right now in the German Zone. Cardinal Felipe does not see all this. In his view on the world everything appears black or white. He has this passive response here from Rome, we are in need to find ways for the faithfuls.

I started my program of sanctuaries to protect the faithfuls against all kinds of aggression. Cause i saw this outcome since a couple of years and with Copona i created this high walls of protection, that are able to protect the german zone against all evil.

I can only recommand and advise to do the same in the areas of your influence.

Everything that is happening here are direct harbingers of the cataclysm that I have predicted here. None of this is surprising.

The occupation of Arduino's Cathedral and St. Helena's Chapel to the point of a staging with a fake priest - allegedly from our ranks.
I of course can't do anything - I am fired as imperial adviser for religious matters and cause that i am also no long Chaplain of the Imperial Chapel.

This will be just the beginning. We are in a war - if we want it or not.

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[Urbain_mastiggia]

Je ne suis pas du genre à refuser l'entrée des églises à n'importe qui, puisque cela permet la transmission de nos valeurs, de notre foi, lorsque nous officions. Je n'envisage pas la possibilité que soient galvaudés des sacrements au sein d'une cathédrale aristotélicienne, ni même au sein d'une chapelle. Nos églises ne sont pas des temples païens, elles ne sont pas ouvertes à la charité des hérétiques, païens et autres hétérodoxies. Nous nous devons au moins de manifester notre interdiction et, le cas échéant, de recourir à ce qui peut l'être en cas de profanation de nos églises.
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I am not one to refuse entry to churches to just anyone, since it allows the transmission of our values, our faith, when we officiate. I do not envisage the possibility of sacraments being abused in an Aristotelian cathedral, or even in a chapel. Our churches are not pagan temples, they are not open to the charity of heretics, pagans and other heterodoxy. We owe it to ourselves at least to show our prohibition and, if need be, to take recourse to what can be done in case of desecration of our churches.
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[Fenice]

I am trying to say something different, but it is not easy to explain. I am trying.
The first thing concerns the war Kalixtus speaks of. We must not participate in this war, otherwise we will have to follow their rules, the rules of politics, which are made up of personal attacks, discredit, instrumental statements. We must be different, not make war, because we are priests, not politicians. And we must be priests.
What does this mean? That the face the Church shows to the world must not only be that of condemnation and excommunication documents, of dogmatic sermons. We must also be pastors, and we do not do this enough, we are content to condemn heresies, but we do nothing to strengthen the true faith of the faithful.
There was a time when the Aristotelian religion was unquestioned. Now, unfortunately, it is no longer, so we must change our way of thinking and acting in order to proselytise. This is the right way to fight.

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J'essaie de dire quelque chose de différent, mais ce n'est pas facile à expliquer. Je vais essayer.
La première chose concerne la guerre dont parle Kalixtus. Nous ne devons pas participer à cette guerre, sinon nous devrons suivre leurs règles, les règles de la politique, qui sont faites d'attaques personnelles, de discrédit, d'affirmations instrumentales. Nous devons être différents, ne pas faire la guerre, parce que nous sommes des prêtres, pas des politiciens. Et nous devons être des prêtres.
Cela signifie que le visage que l'Église montre au monde ne doit pas seulement être celui de documents de condamnation, d'excommunication, de sermons dogmatiques. Nous devons aussi être des pasteurs, et nous ne le faisons pas assez, nous nous contentons de condamner les hérésies, mais nous ne faisons rien pour renforcer la vraie foi des fidèles.
Il fut un temps où la religion aristotélicienne était incontestée. Aujourd'hui, malheureusement, elle ne l'est plus et nous devons donc changer notre façon de penser pour agir afin de faire du prosélytisme. C'est la bonne façon de lutter.
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[Kalixtus]

In principle, I want to agree with you sister, but also point to Aristotle's idea of the perfect city:

[Fenice]

I know the excerpt you quote, Brother. Every Doge of Genoa is crowned and blessed with a short homily about this, to make people understand the true nature of earthly power.
But, as I said before, for many the Aristotelian religion is no longer the absolute Truth, and we must understand the need to regain the lost position, using the means that are proper to priests.
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[pamelita]

I agree with what you both say, but do you think it is right to allow a religious funeral in a consecrated church for an excommunicated person?
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[Felipe...]