L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[countess.Kathleen]

[DE]
Es gibt jetzt seit beinahe drei Jahren keine automatischen Löschungen mehr. Dass die Charaktere nun auf Jahre hinaus verschollen sein können und niemand etwas über ihren Verbleib weiß, ist für viele Spieler aber sehr unbefriedigend. Dies betrifft auch die Kirche. Wo früher eine Ehe wegen Todes erlosch, muss sie nun aufgelöst werden. Wie geht die Kirche in anderen Ländern mit diesem Problem um? Wer entscheidet über das Schicksal der abwesenden Charaktere solange ihre Spieler fort sind?

[EN]
It's been about three years since characters aren't erradicated automatically anymore. However characters being in absent mode for years and nobody knowing their fate is an issue for many players. It also affects the church. Many marriages that would have been declared null after the death of wife or husband now have to be dissolved. How does the church approach this in other countries? Who gets to decide about the absent characters' fate while their players are gone?

[FR]
C'est déjà près de 3 ans, qu'il n'y a plus des éradicacions automatiques. Maintenant, les personnages peut rester absents pour des années et personne ne sait rien sûr leur localisation. C'est grave pour beaucoup des joueurs. L'église, elle est affecté aussi. Les marriages qu'on a déclaré extincts plus tôt il faut les dissolver maintenant. Qu'est-ce qu'on faire dans d'autres pays? Qui peut décider le destin des personnages absents alors que leurs joueurs n'est pas là?

[nono18]

Bonjour,

En effet, on peut choisir à leur place.
Le Droit Canon dit qu'on peut dissoudre un mariage si l'un des époux est absent plus de trois mois. Cela a été fait pour ne pas bloquer les joueurs.
Je conseille à ton pantin d'aller parler à son évêque pour voir ce qu'il peut faire mais cela ne pose pas de souci pour les dissolutions.
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"Le DC ne vous commande pas d'aller aux toilettes. Pourtant, vous le faites." Rehael

[Rodrigomanzanarez]

God with you,

in the past characters died automatically after 6 months of inactivity (removed from the game automatically).
Now they don't! (Chars are ONLY removed when People click to erase. But people that just stop playing often don't do that..) So this causes several consequences:

- The "left-behind" marriage partner now has to go through a divorce procedure.
This means work for several clerics and the marriage partner.
And at the end they get a ban of several months for re-marriaging!

- There is no succession possible. Especially for the Nobles a displeasing situation. Especially regarding feuds. This is no real church issue but an issue in rules for Nobles. But some are approaching us with that Topic.

- Church functions now must be removed manually. It is possible yes in case of inactivity but is has to go through a special procedure.

We discussed that issue in the german clerics council. I can summarize there is high interest we give that a change.

>>>How can we solve that in your opinion, my European Sisters and Brothers?<<<

A few Aspects here from our Proposals from the german Cleric councel (a Petition will follow after being translated)

[elequest]

In Holland we had the same discussion.
Heraldry asked to declare people dead. Initially, the church has done this because a cardinal said people are death after 3 months . Later on it turned back to missing. But the damage was already done. Heraldry has different rules than the church. People lost ther faith in the church.

I myself was also missing. I return to my church funcion still vacant. I could take it back.

We miss good rules around missing people. I think that the roman curie should draw good rules here on the canon law.

It seems good that marriages are dissolved automatically if a profile is removed from the game. Other sacraments should hold their value
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Elequest van Staverden. * Priest in Haarlem * Bishop in partibus of Antinoë * Ritter Ordre Teutonique

[Adso]

Hi,

In France, Heraldry and Church are completely independent. They have their own rules.

Concerning marriage in Church, we have set up a simplified procedure that allows to dissolve them without a trial, in two specific cases:
- when both husband and wife agree on dissolving the marriage
- when one of them didn't connect for more than 3 months, with proof OOC with the player's IG sheet.

The procedure only consists in the bishop "noting" that all conditions are met for the simplified procedure in a document, then the consistory validate.

See http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/viewtopic.php?p=613473#613473 (in French). You can ask me questions if necessary, but the German cardinals, for example, know about this special procedure, and are probably working on implementing it in their own zone. Speak with them (but wait until they are back from summer holidays )
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Cardinal émérite - Archevêque de Cambrai

[Rodrigomanzanarez]

I see.. thx a lot *to adso*

Eminence Maddel is on it (divorce aspect), indeed.

So I understand right, this rule is already ok in Rome and we just have to implement it by the national consistory?
_________________

[Adso]

Well... the rule is OK in French-speaking area (it was a decision of the French consistory). But it doesn't contradict the Canon Law, so we consider that it is ok in general
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Cardinal émérite - Archevêque de Cambrai

[countess.Kathleen]

Assuming that the divorce aspect is dealt with. What is the church, what are peoople doing about the storyline effect of vanishing people?

One second, Luke is in the bishop's office asking about his baptism and simultaneously in another forum thread Luke is furnishing the house withhis wife to be and thirdly, he is also undergoing training for the military of his province. The next instant, he's gone and never heard from again.

Does anybody try to make ends meet? Fabricate a story that could explain it and also allow going on with life if Luke should come back?

[Adso]

One must not force the role play of the "vanishing" people. For example, we cannot declare them dead if they don't connect for months. Only that they have "disappeared". This is also valid for their unfinished thread/story lines : one cannot decide on their actions in these thread. So you have to deal with that as smooth as possible. The best way is not to emphasise on the hypothetical results of what they were doing in these threads.
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Cardinal émérite - Archevêque de Cambrai

[countess.Kathleen]

Sorry for taking my time to answer but here it goes:

I disagree with your assessment.

You quote a good rule, there. One is not allowed to force another player's roleplay. It's a fine rule but as Aristotle has taught our characters: The effect cannot exist without the cause.

The cause in case of the rule above is, that forcing another player's roleplay would infringe on that player's right to make their own moves with the character. But that right can only exist as long as we can expext players to anounce their characters' actions in a more or less timely fashion. In my interpretation of the unwritten rules, a player who doesn't log into the game for weeks without giving notice of his or her absence forfeits the right to decide his or her character's fate.

This is the basic assumption.

What follows, is:
Since the player who abandoned the character won't write about the character anymore, life will go on without him. Play around the character doesn't have to come to a halt. If Kathleen visits Adso at his place for a cup of tea and I forget about it in the midst of conversation, I won't expect you to continue the play at that point if - 6 years later - I decide to come back to that thread. (You might decide to comply and it could be fun but you are in no way oblieged to)

At least if it can't be helped, players will already force abandoned players' actions in such situations. If Arnault meets Adso and states that he saw - err heard about - Kathleen's visit and he inquires about the outcome, it is higly unlikely, that Adso will claim not knowing how it turned out just because you as a player don't know if I will revisit the scene. So most likely, Adso will state something neutral like saying it was a pleasant conversation bur nothing more than small talk. If you do so, you are still forcing my play but you do so in a respectful and responsible manner.

What I envision is, that this would be done on a larger scale to bring together the open ends and give all players security about the question of what can be said about abandoned characters. As is, everyone has to decide for themselves which creates all manners of insecuryties and inconsistencies. In the end, the uncertain situation also makes it more difficult for players to return because they'd have to ask all kinds of people about the state of affairs concerning their characters.

It is still not possible to declare someone dead who had just been abandoned. This is simply because Celsius decided to build a golden bridge for returning players, which I approve of. But that doesn't imply that the IG-setting aside of characters mustn't be accompanied by them being set aside in RP as well. It only implies, that there must be a way back (marooned characters are rescued, ill characters recover, they can return from long voyages to far away or whatever suits their play before beibg abandoned).

And things being as they are, I believe that the church is the authority to go about such a task.