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Pie de Valence
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 26, 2023 10:49 pm    Sujet du message: [RP] - Index requested Répondre en citant

My Brothers and Sisters, I ask you to blackling in Index the text below. It was issued by the Angevin authorities. It is in French but here is, word for word what it says

Citation:
Takeover of the diocese

Angevins, Angevins, almost Angevins, friends,
To all those who will read, hear or be repeated, even in a distorted way,

Anjou does not need the approval of Rome or that of La Reyne to manage religious life within our Archduchy.
From now on, whoever wishes to administer the diocese will have to convince the Angevins, and them alone.

At present, only René-Alphonse [IG: Avaryss] can claim this function. He will therefore receive the keys to the diocese at the end of the week, in particular in order to be able to kick the priests who are a little too sleepy.

June 28, 1471.

The Archduke of Anjou,

Eddwyn Sidjéno.


This province, which claims to be independent of the kingdom of France, refuses to respect the independence of the Church. It took over the diocese of Angers and the local authorities assumed the right to appoint the bishop themselves. We cannot tolerate this violation of our independence, let alone from a province that claims to be fighting for its independence. How can it be credible if it does not respect the independence of others and in particular of the Church ? Hence my request for placement on the Index.



---------------------------------------

Miei Fratelli e Sorelle, vi chiedo di mettere nell'Indice il testo sottostante. Fu emesso dalle autorità angioine. È in francese ma ecco, parola per parola, cosa dice


Citation:

Assunzione della diocesi

Angioini, Angioini, quasi Angioini, amici,
A tutti coloro che leggeranno, ascolteranno o si faranno ripetere, anche in modo distorto,

L'Angiò non ha bisogno dell'approvazione di Roma o di quella di La Reyne per gestire la vita religiosa all'interno del nostro Arciducato.
D'ora in poi, chi vorrà amministrare la diocesi dovrà convincere gli Angioini, e solo loro.

Al momento, solo René-Alphonse [IG: Avaryss] può rivendicare questa funzione. Riceverà quindi le chiavi della diocesi a fine settimana, in particolare per poter prendere a calci i preti un po' troppo assonnati.

28 giugno 1471.

L'Arciduca d'Angiò,

Eddwyn Sidjeno.


Questa provincia, che si proclama indipendente dal regno di Francia, si rifiuta di rispettare l'indipendenza della Chiesa. Assumeva la diocesi di Angers e le autorità locali si assumevano il diritto di nominare esse stesse il vescovo. Non possiamo tollerare questa violazione della nostra indipendenza, figuriamoci da parte di una provincia che sostiene di lottare per la propria indipendenza. Come può essere credibile se non rispetta l'indipendenza degli altri e in particolare della Chiesa ? Da qui la mia richiesta di inserimento nell'Index.

---------------------------------
The french original version


Citation:
    [center][/center]
    [hr=20]

    [center]Reprise en main du diocèse[/center]


    Angevines, Angevins, presque Angevins, amis,
    À tous ceux qui liront, entendront ou se feront répéter, même de façon déformée,



      L'Anjou n'a besoin ni de l'aval de Rome ni de celui la Reyne pour gérer la vie religieuse au sein de notre Archiduché.
      Désormais, quiconque désirera administrer le diocèse devra convaincre les angevins, et eux seuls.

      A l'heure actuelle, seul René-Alphonse [IG : Avaryss] peut prétendre à cette fonction. Il recevra donc les clés du diocèse dès la fin de la semaine, afin de pouvoir notamment virer à coups de pieds aux fesses les curés un peu trop assoupis.


    [center][/center]

    Le 28 juin 1471.

    L'Archiduc d'Anjou,


[center]
[/center]

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"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)
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Felipe...
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Juil 27, 2023 10:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

-Brother Pie, in my view this document is only an annoucement, it is neither an argumentative text nor a dissertation nor a law that legislates the appointment of bishops, so therefore it is not substantial enough to be archived in the Index.

-However, given the magnitude of this situation, I believe that the excommunication of the Duke of Anjou is necessary, as his actions cannot go unpunished.

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Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Juil 27, 2023 11:53 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Brother Cardinal, in addition to the reason explained above, I would make this announcement public precisely to underline the muddy self-confidence of these sinners.
Please keep us posted on the situation, you are in my thoughts and prayers.

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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 9:26 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Don't waste time with these idiots, anything you post or announce will be ridiculed. These wildlings understand nothing but violence. I have already explained the situation related to the stupidity of the Queen. The best thing to do is a war to end this circus and the Church could very well get involved.
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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 10:12 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

One of them, Nerys, seems the most violent of all. One feels, at home, a real hatred of everything that, from near or far, resembles an Aristotelian. I wrote to Monsignor Avaryss to ask him to run in canonical forms for the post of Bishop of Angers in order to invalidate this announcement. He promised me his answer by Saturday. I hope he does not make the mistake of refusing.
On the other hand, the State of Anjou is seen by many as a rogue state: in most places where I pass, I read that the borders are open to everyone except the Anjou. It still means something.
When Monsignor David arrived to be briefly Bishop Res Parendo, he was attacked : "My first month in Anjou was difficult, I had all my goods stolen when I arrived by the Angevine customs and nothing was returned to me. I was expected. I did not present myself as bishop sent from Rome but the temporal authorities were informed of my appointment, proof that in Anjou, they inquire at least about what is happening in Rome" said David.

This proclamation has been translated into their fundamental laws in this form


Citation:
D-THE BISHOP

The Bishop of Angers is elected every four months after a popular and public election [gargote]. The election is opened by the Archduke. Candidates with the conditions to be bishop are presented to the people and the people vote for the candidate of their choice on the ten days of the election.
The mandate of the Bishop of Anjou is renewable only once.

A benevolent watchdog of the Angevine faith, the Bishop ensures that religious freedom is preserved in Anjou.
Concerned about the life of the parishes of the Archduchy, he ensured the good conduct of the parish priests.
Working closely with the Duke and the Archduke, he remained at their disposal for the distribution of the cult funds or the sharing of the approval of the diocese.


------------------------------------------

Uno di loro, Nerys, sembra il più violento di tutti. Si sente, a casa, un vero odio per tutto ciò che, da vicino o lontano, assomiglia ad un aristotelico. Ho scritto a monsignor Avaryss per chiedergli di candidarsi in forme canoniche alla carica di vescovo di Angers per invalidare questo annuncio. Mi ha promesso la sua risposta entro sabato. Spero che non faccia l'errore di rifiutare.
D'altra parte, lo Stato d'Angiò è visto da molti come uno Stato canaglia: nella maggior parte dei posti dove passo, leggo che i confini sono aperti a tutti tranne che all'Angiò. Ha ancora un significato.
Quando monsignor David è arrivato per essere brevemente vescovo Res Parendo, è stato aggredito: "Il mio primo mese in Angiò è stato difficile, mi sono fatto rubare tutti i miei beni arrivando attraverso la dogana di Angioino e nulla mi è stato restituito. Mi stavano aspettando qui. Non mi sono presentato come vescovo inviato da Roma, ma le autorità temporali erano informate della mia nomina, prova che in Angiò ci si informa almeno su ciò che accade a Roma" disse David.

Questa proclamazione è stata tradotta nelle loro leggi fondamentali in questa forma


Citation:
D - IL VESCOVO

Il vescovo di Angers viene eletto ogni quattro mesi dopo un'elezione popolare e pubblica [Gargote]. L'elezione è aperta dall'arciduca. I candidati con le condizioni per essere vescovo sono presentati al popolo e il popolo vota per il candidato di loro scelta nei dieci giorni dell'elezione.
Il mandato del Vescovo d'Angiò è rinnovabile una sola volta.

Custode benevolo della fede angioina, il Vescovo assicura che la libertà religiosa è preservata in Angiò.
Preoccupato per la vita delle parrocchie dell'arciducato, assicura la buona condotta dei parroci.
Lavorando a stretto contatto con il duca e l'arciduca, rimase a loro disposizione per la distribuzione dei fondi per il culto o la condivisione dell'approvazione della diocesi.

_________________
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"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)
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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 12:59 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Pie de Valence a écrit:

Citation:
D-THE BISHOP

The Bishop of Angers is elected every four months after a popular and public election [gargote]. The election is opened by the Archduke. Candidates with the conditions to be bishop are presented to the people and the people vote for the candidate of their choice on the ten days of the election.
The mandate of the Bishop of Anjou is renewable only once.

A benevolent watchdog of the Angevine faith, the Bishop ensures that religious freedom is preserved in Anjou.
Concerned about the life of the parishes of the Archduchy, he ensured the good conduct of the parish priests.
Working closely with the Duke and the Archduke, he remained at their disposal for the distribution of the cult funds or the sharing of the approval of the diocese.


-This is the text that should be registered in the Index!

-Your Eminence, do you have the full text of this law in French, with the coats of arms and institutional seals?

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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 1:32 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Nerys a écrit:
Citation:
[center]



Dans mon verre comme dans mon cœur, l'Anjou apporte le bonheur.

____________________________

AMEN
____________________________
[/center]

    Aux Angevines, aux Angevins,
    Au reste du monde,
    Surtout à Rome,


      Une modification de notre constitution a été approuvée par huit conseillers du gouvernement (Kayhan, Miramaz, Polixene, Allaryelle, Alleaume, Le Bateleur, Fraj, Hakael), par nous Duchesse, et par l'Archiduc Eddwyn.
      Elle encadrera l'élévation à la charge d'évêque d'Anjou, maintenant que notre indépendance s'étend aussi sur le domaine du spirituel.

      La voici :
      Citation:
      D-L'Evêque

      L'Evêque d'Angers est élu tous les quatre mois au terme d'un scrutin populaire et publique [gargote]. Le scrutin est ouvert par l'Archiduc. Les candidats ayant les conditions pour être évêque sont présentés au peuple et celui-ci vote pour le candidat de son choix sur les dix jours du scrutin.
      Le mandat de l'Evêque d'Anjou n'est renouvelable qu'une fois.

      Vigie bienveillante sur la foi angevine, l'Evêque veille à ce que la liberté religieuse soit préservée en Anjou.
      Soucieux de la vie des paroisses de l'Archiduché, il s'assure de la bonne tenue des cures.
      Travaillant étroitement avec le Duc et l'Archiduc, il reste à leurs dispositions pour la distribution des deniers du culte ou le partage de l'agrément du diocèse.


      Pour l'Anjou, pour sa liberté de culte.

[hr]
[center]Rédigé, scellé par Nerys, Duchesse d'Anjou, le 12 juillet 1471


[/center]

_________________
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"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)
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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 2:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

"I'm sorry, this question is undoubtedly serious. But I would like to understand one thing. Does this "Archduke" have any recognition from anyone? I mean are there other Kingdoms that support their independence from the Kingdom of France?

Another question. The IG diocese of Angers? Is it under the authority of Rome or the King?"

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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 2:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Francesco_maria a écrit:
Another question. The IG diocese of Angers? Is it under the authority of Rome or the King?"


OFF ROL PLAY//

It is under the authority of Rome, but Celsius, in a new case of their usual cynicism and anti-playfulness, have decided once again to create an arbitrary exception (as in Holland) and to appoint as bishop whoever the Archduke or Duke of Anjou decides.

http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/viewtopic.php?p=1016126#1016126

"Good game Wink "
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MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 28, 2023 3:07 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

OFF ROLE PLAY:

thanks for the tip. I had missed the announcement. And what is this special treatment due to them?
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MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 31, 2023 10:47 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

[OFF Role Play

The duration of the seat's vacancy, I think.

It is the same system as when the queen had obtained to appoint to vacant dioceses.

This does not prevent our characters from being able to condemn the elective system put in place and to put this law on the index.]

Still no word from Avaryss.

For my part, after suffering their somewhat pathetic assaults, I managed to contain them or, at least, to have them deal with other subjects for the time being.

On the other hand, more worrisome, this scum seems to spread territorially and I fear, if any military force puts it in order, we will one day be sandwiched by a combined attack from Anjou, of Ponant and Geneva to reduce the Kingdom of France to nothing and the Church with.


-----------------------------

Ancora nessuna notizia di Avaryss fino ad oggi.

Da parte mia, dopo aver subito i loro attacchi un po' patetici, sono riuscito a contenerli o, almeno, a far sì che si occupino di altri argomenti per ora.

D'altra parte, la cosa più preoccupante è che questa gentaglia sembra espandersi territorialmente e temo che, se qualche forza militare non vi mette ordine, un giorno saremo intrappolati da un attacco combinato proveniente dall'Angiò, del Ponant e di Ginevra per ridurre il Regno di Francia a nulla e la Chiesa con.

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"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)
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MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 31, 2023 10:59 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

-So, none of our brother cardinals have any objection to this text being archived in the Index?

-Should we, in addition, draft and publish an announcement explaining the dogmatic and canonical reasons for this new addition to the Index?

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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 01, 2023 8:45 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

It will be absolutely useless, Anjou doesn't care and only works by force.

But go ahead.

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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 01, 2023 9:55 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Cathelineau a écrit:
It will be absolutely useless, Anjou doesn't care and only works by force.


+1

"If the authority of this archduke is not internationally recognized, it is useless to waste time on it. If we had to index every text written against the Church by every citizen we would be overwhelmed by useless bureaucracy. These guys in Anjou have already gotten from Celsius what they care about our Indexing their statement is for them good toilet paper.

Rather, it could be a good opportunity to reaffirm the value of the figure of the bishop and the reason why he is chosen by the Episcopal Assembly in communion with the whole Holy Church and not by a popular vote like any political leader. Precisely to reaffirm the impartial value of the Holy Church and its role as mother of the Aristotelian Kingdoms as a guarantee of peace and justice.

I believe that we should commit ourselves more in the future as a Church to reaffirm our central role and strive to prevent these attacks by working in the territories, not simply be satisfied with arriving when the crisis exploded and acknowledging with a declaration that these people are ugly and bad and no longer there is nothing left to do."

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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 01, 2023 2:32 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Citation:
It will be absolutely useless, Anjou doesn't care and only works by force.


I can only agree with Cat here. Francesco's words also seem logical to me.
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