L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Adonnis]

Brothers, Sisters,

It is necessary to conclude the subject started in the discussion Civil Union in the Empire.

There was no consensus. There was dissent from the Cardinals between the necessity of excommunicating the Empress and that the Empress should not be excommunicated.

The full text of the debate can be found here.

I then invite all the Cardinals to cast their votes, in order to present a definitive conclusion on this question.

The vote will last for 5 days and will follow the rules laid down in the Codex Iuris Canonici.



Citation:

Article 4: The Sacred College of Cardinals, known as the Sacred College, is the highest collegial organ of the Aristotelian, Roman and Universal Church. It includes all the Cardinals, regardless of their nature or charge, and assists the Pope in the governance of the Church. Article 4.1: The Sacred College takes its decisions by consensus or by vote. Article 4.2: The votes, launched at the Sacred College, have a standard duration of 5 days. Article 4.2.1: All decisions taken at the Sacred College are made by an absolute majority of the votes cast. n.b. : Absolute majority means: - If the total number of votes cast is even: half of the total votes, plus 1. - If the total number of votes cast is odd: half of the total votes rounded up to the next higher number. - In all cases, blank votes or abstention votes are deducted from the total number of votes cast to establish the majority threshold. - A blank vote is a vote of abstention. Article 4.2.2: Any decision that is up to a vote must include the choice "abstention". Article 4.2.3: Any decision that is up to a vote which includes different choices than "agree or disagree" must obligatorily include the choice "against all proposals" in addition to the choice "abstention". Article 4.2.4: A second ballot is only organized if an absolute majority has not been reached in the first ballot. The proposals put to the vote are necessarily those which can obtain an absolute majority during this second ballot. Article 4.2.5: A third ballot is only organized if an absolute majority has not been reached in the second ballot. Only the two proposals with the most votes in the second ballot are put to the vote. The third ballot follows the rules laid down in the articles 4.2.2 and 4.2.3. Article 4.2.6: No quorum is required for the polls, unless otherwise specified in Canon Law, and except for the following cases: - the election of the Pope (if applicable) requires a quorum equal to or greater than two-thirds of the Cardinals designated as electors in that election. - the election of the Dean (see details within article 7.1). Article 4.2.7: The abstention votes are counted in the calculation of the quorum. Article 4.3: The voting time may be reduced to 24 hours in the case of an urgent measure or increased to 10 days in the case of an important measure. Article 4.4: The urgent or important nature of a measure is the responsibility of the Dean or Vice-Dean of the Sacred College.

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Tymothé de Nivellus]

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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Ulli]

On the one hand, there are more or less complaints that I am not "active" enough here in the college, on the other hand, I am excluded from voting.

[Francesco_maria]

"Brother Ulli, only cardinal bishops and cardinal priests can vote in votes of this type."
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[pamelita]

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[Adonnis]

Voting closed.

Excommunicate the Empress: 5 votes.
Do not excommunicate the Empress: 4 votes.

The Canon Law determines that the votes of the Sacred College will take into account the absolute majority of those voting.

There were 9 voters in total.

In this case: "If the total number of votes cast is odd: half of the total votes rounded up to the next higher number"

Considering that the "Excommunication" option received an absolute majority of the votes, I consider the decision of the Sacred College of Cardinals to be to Excommunicate the Empress.

An announcement will be made soon.



Citation:

(...) Article 4.2.1: All decisions taken at the Sacred College are made by an absolute majority of the votes cast. n.b. : Absolute majority means: - If the total number of votes cast is even: half of the total votes, plus 1. - If the total number of votes cast is odd: half of the total votes rounded up to the next higher number. - In all cases, blank votes or abstention votes are deducted from the total number of votes cast to establish the majority threshold. - A blank vote is a vote of abstention. (...)

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

Has no words about this bullshit, that cardinals from the pampas now decide that 10 years of hard work will go down the drain is disgusting. There would be so many other options but of course shoot with the massive weapon instead of alternatives. Ridiculous and dangerous to throw a halfway functioning region into chaos.

Kalixtus will not participate in this in the future, he will withdraw from the area of the national churches. Enough! How is he supposed to spread the faith if the faith is banned? The 5 probably did not think of that.

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[Ulli]

[Adonnis]

Unfortunately yes, Brother Ulli.

Cardinal Deacons only have the right to speak in the Sacred College. The exception to this rule is voting for Dean of the Sacred College and voting in a Conclave.

On the other hand, you have the right to vote in the decisions of your language region, since as a member by right of the Germanophone Pontifical Consistory, you have voice and vote in the decisions of the Consistory.



Ulli a écrit:

Francesco_maria a écrit: "Brother Ulli, only cardinal bishops and cardinal priests can vote in votes of this type." And this is exactly where the problem lies, precisely in this vote. I'm supposed to join the discussion, if I don't I'm inactive, but I'm not allowed to vote on anything in my homeland, where I'm supposed to spread and defend the faith every day, and that in one of the largest archdioceses. Here cardinals who may know on the map where the empire is located if at all determine the continued existence of the faith.

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Adonnis]

For note: The Holy Father has asked that the excommunication not be published until further notice.

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Adonnis]

Opinions?



Citation:

De Salute Fidelium We, the Cardinals of the Holy Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church, reunited in our Sacred College, under the Light of Saints and Prophets and by the Grace of the Most High and of the His Holiness Sixtus IV, Once again, the Holy See feels compelled to hold the pen to express its pain and sadness at the crooked paths that Secular Sovereigns choose to follow, even though they should act in accordance with their mission as Defenders of the Faith. The Holy Roman Empire was long one of the nations faithful to its Holy Mother and, for years and years, lived up to the title of "Holy". However, this faithful defender nation has long allowed itself to be influenced by countless heretical ideas through advisors and nobles who mistakenly contaminate the Crown and those Holy Emperors and Empresses who use it with the idea that to welcome and support heretical ideas and ideals is to ensure that the imperial subjects have a Just State. However, in truth, what the Holy Mother Church has been trying to explain to her beloved daughter for so long and throughout so many reigns is that these heretical ideas and ideals do not bring justice and equity to her people. On the contrary, these ideas further distance the people from salvation, through iniquity and error. The Sovereigns must be the examples for their people, the banners of accuracy and righteousness. Let us recall the prayer of Saint Louis, King of France, when he asked God: "Help me to be the crown of thorns that will keep the heretic away from our land". This concept brings us to the ideal of states governed by Philosopher Kings, as taught by the Prophet Aristotle. St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that: "The king also receives his power from God. And since the people are only doing God's will by placing him on his throne, his power is divine by nature, top to bottom. The sword that you wield is entrusted to you by God, obviously not directly, but since God is the primary cause of all causes and effects, there is no doubt that He is also the cause of your authority. Now, as the church is the repository of the divine word, you must obey it. This is so, unless you reduce yourself to the condition of a tyrant." However, what happened on November 3, 1470, goes against all the Teachings of the Saints and Prophets about how a Sovereign should guide his State: On this sad day, the Holy Mother Church learned that the Empress of the Empire, who always proudly bore the title "Saint", approved an amendment to the Magna Carta of the Empire allowing the so-called "Civil Unions" that the Empress herself describes as "the right of entering into a civil union, founding a family, and writing a last will". This "Civil Union" is nothing more than a way to allow the formation of couples with total subversion of the dogmatic norms about Aristotelian Marriage, as taught by the Prophet Christos, and was later, by the hands of the Empress herself, regulated by the promulgation of the Charter of the Imperial Civil Registry and the Procedural Rules for Registering a Civil Union. The Holy Mother tried, for a long time, to warn the Imperial Crown about the error that this measure imposed, because it frontally attacked all the Teachings of the Most High, through His Saints and Prophets. However, what can be seen throughout this period is that the Empire not only did not plan to rectify its blemish, but it promulgated additional rules to establish the ways to adopt this heretical union. With her ascension to the Throne, the Aristotelian Community deeply longed for the rapprochement between the Imperial Crown and Holy Mother Church and the True Faith. And now, the Holy Mother Church weeps to find that her daughter, following the example of her predecessors, has ventured into the path of evil and misfortune, instead of bringing the Empire back to the path of Salvation. Therefore, after exhaustive analysis of all the evidence presented to us showing that the Empire continues to work against the salvation of the faithful, We, the Cardinals of Holy Mother Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church, conclude that there is no alternative but to officially pronounce the Excommunication Latae Sententiae of Adaliena Gloriana Elise von Araja, for the above reasons, because of the state of darkness and shadows which she herself has sought, of her own volition and initiative. She will then be deprived of the State of Grace until she rectifies and corrects her errors. We hope that this daughter will refrain from her pernicious mistakes so that they can return to Us, on which occasion we will be able to offer them the motherly charity and love inspired by Divine Mercy. On the other hand, if despite our warnings and prayers, she does not redeem herself, her soul will be condemned to eternal damnation in the Lunar Hell, and your body will be condemned to remain without a funeral. Finally, we clarify that by placing herself in a situation of excommunication, this Daughter is deprived of all Sacraments and Honors received by Holy Mother Church, as well as Nobiliary Titles, Pontifical Fiefs, Properties or Possessions that she has acquired or received. Given in Rome, on the twenty-third day of March in the Year of Grace MCDLXXI, Feast of the Archangels, V of the Pontificate of His Holiness Sixtus IV and III of the Age of Restoration of the Faith Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam! His Eminence Adonnis Ferreira de Queirós Silva e Sagres Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalis Decanus

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Adonnis]

Published

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

why was not waited with such a document extensively enough, before you publish it.

I am not at all satisfied that the impression is given that here all cardinals would speak with one voice.

This is not so - apparently 44% of the cardinals see this analysis differently. This should have been made clear in this paper.

The internal rules say a debate on a topic and this text is something new should not last less than 3 days - this did not happen.



Citation:

Debates, Votes and Consensus When a new debate or vote is initiated, the Dean of the Sacred College is required to notify by private message all the cardinals entitled respectively to speak or vote of the beginning of the said debate or vote. In the case of urgent measures, the Dean of the Sacred College may establish a maximum time limit for debate of not less than three days; in the case of important measures, the Dean of the Sacred College may establish a minimum time limit for debate of not less than three days and not more than ten. The Dean of the Sacred College is obliged to initiate a vote on a proposal emerging from a debate when the debate is over, when the majority of the participants in the debate requests it, or when he or she considers it appropriate. Consensus can only be invoked when all participants entitled to vote on the issue under discussion agree on a single decision and, in any case, not before three days of debate. A consensus can only be adopted if no one entitled to vote on the issue under discussion intervenes to dissent and, in any case, only after one day has elapsed since its invocation.

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[Felipe...]

[Kalixtus]

Yes, I would not find it problematic at all if it says that Cardinal Kalixtus was not in favor. On the contrary, because I think that in the question of excommunications there can be no two opinions and that the Curia is so divided is not natural and also not in the sense of the inventor.

All the debates, including the one about this text, became a discussion at the moment when the Dean asked for opinions - so here too a debate of 3 days is valid.

This was not respected.

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