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Nettoyage forum / Cleaning of te forum.

 
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{LeuhTraiho}



Inscrit le: 22 Mai 2017
Messages: 101

MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 06, 2018 9:55 am    Sujet du message: Nettoyage forum / Cleaning of te forum. Répondre en citant

Bonjour à tous et toutes.


En jettant un coup d'oeil au forum, j'ai pu remarquer que beaucoup de forums et de sous-forums n'étaient pas utilisés depuis au moins 2017 (certains depuis plus longtemps que ça). C'est quelque chose qui était prévue à mon arrrivée et qu'on a ensuite laissé trainer par la force des choses. Mais d'ici la semaine prochaine, les forums et sous-forums qui n'auront pas vu d'activité seront tout simplement archivés. La raison principale étant de rendre le forum plus lisible pour tous et à terme, les archives seront supprimées afin de permettre la création de nouveaux sous-forums.

Je vous laisse faire passer le message.



------------------------------

Greetings everyone,


I have noticed today that a lot of forums and subforums haven't been used since at least 2017 (some goes back in time by far more). That was something schedulded when I arrived, but it has been postponed since. Next weekend, all forums and subforums that won't have any new activity on it will be archived. The main reason behind that is to keep the whole forum clear for everyone and eventually the archives will be erased in order to allow the creation of new forums and subforums.

I let you spread the information to everyone. Wink

LTH
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Fenice
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MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 06, 2018 2:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Greetings, the whole section "La Congregation del Affaires du Siècle" has recently been re-organized by Ogma and, even if certain subforums are not used yet, they will be in a short time and in any case the diplomatic activity needs secret rooms ready whenever you need them.
So, please, leave the Congregation as it is. Thanks.
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 06, 2018 5:09 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The Villa St. Loyats and his subforums are under aktivity even if there are some parts of it in which nothing or only a few activity is present. This can be changed in moments cause this areas are important for translations in each language. Hope you can understand the need of this areas.
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hull
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MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 06, 2018 5:31 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

It would probably be good to do a list of "subforums to be archived" so that we can see what to do. Because some subforums are really old and need to be removed. But others are special cases (like meeting rooms used only once in a while when needed for diplo/inquisition/politics/etc.)... or like the Slovenian CESE which is inactive in Rome, but active IG... removing their part is like shunning them.

Anyways, I hope you understand the delicateness of removing all subforums without considering their use.

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{LeuhTraiho}



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MessagePosté le: Dim Oct 14, 2018 6:41 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I understand your concerns and of course, I'm working on a solution suitable for everyone.

First, I'd like to discuss about something. There's many archives' (sub)forums on Roma. Just by using a ctrl+f, there's a total count of 78 archives.
For me, that number can be reduced by a lot. And if everyone agree I'd like to do this :
- Deleting all archives forums.
- Creating one big archives forum on the bottom of Roma for everyone/everything.
I know that, it's a big change. And I think, you'll argue that some archives must stay private as there's sensitives informations. To counter-argue that, I'd like to let you know that if an information is in an archive, it's because it's out of date. So why to keep it private anyway as it will never be used again ? + Most archives forums are only about informations of 2014 and later.
Maybe some will say that, it's going to be hard to find an old informations if everything is grouped by. Remember that, there's a search tools on the forum, that allow you to quickly find something.



Anyway, let's talk about the churches categories first
Le campement des croisés - Nothing since May 2015.
Forteresse Kyrène - Nothing since June 2016
Tepidarium - Romanum Latinae Linguae Institutum - Nothing since October 2015
Reference Works - Nothing since December 2015
Hall of Hearing - Nothing since October 2016
Private Chambers - Nothing since Decembre 2014
Office of the ESPC - Nothing since May 2015
The Order of Dwywai the Ecstatic Archives - Nothing since February 2009
Secret room 2 - Nothing since January 2013
Cenacolum Episcoporum Italiae (CEI) - Nothing since August 2015
Tribunale Archiepiscopale dell'Arcidiocesi di Firenze - Nothing since October 2015 (last post was a bot lol)
Sala Beato Seneca - Never been used
Sala Beato Platone - Never been used
Sacro Ordine di Merito di San Samot e Paolo Apostoli - Nothing since July 2014
Concilio Permanente Hispánico - Nothing since December 2015
Seminario - Nothing since November 2010
Salón privado de la AEH - Nothing since Decembre 2013
Arzobispado de Tarragona - Nothing since February 2016
Obispado de Segovia - Nothing since October 2014
L'Église du Royaume de Hongrie et de Croatie - Church of the Kingdom of Hungary and Croatia - Last activity on that forum is from September 2017 and before that it was October 2016. It's nearly one post every year.
Kościół Królestwa Polskiego - L'Église de la Pologne - Church of the Kingdom of Poland - Nothing since April 2016
Царство България - Église de Bulgarie - Church of Bulgary Same as previous, nothing since a June 2017 and there's nearly one post every year.
L'Église de l'Union de Kalmar - Church of the Kalmar Union - Last post was an update of the roster on the Church, no real activity since 2012.
Église du principalat de Valahia - Church of the Principality of Valahia - Nothing since 2012 for that forum.
Српска Црква - L'Église du Royaume de Serbie - Church of the Kingdom of Serbia - Last activity was in 2018, but there's nearly one post every year.
Kisha e Arbërisë - L'Église d'Albanie - Church of the Kingdom of Albania - Nothing since October 2016
Církev Zemí koruny České - Église du Royaume Tchèque - Church of Corona regni Bohemiae - Nothing since November 2016


As you can see, there's a lot of forum with 0 activity for a while. So, I can hear you about why I shouldn't remove those forums, but for some I wish you good luck to covince me. ^^
I know that, it can be troublesome to remove a church's forum, but let's face reality there's no activity in those forum, so what is the all point to have an all forum for it ?
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hull
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MessagePosté le: Dim Oct 14, 2018 10:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

"I can agree to many things. I can agree to having the useless forums removed. I can agree to see the holy armies related "extra forums" deleted.

We can also remove the other church forums, but we should still have an area open to them if ever, we never know what might happen on the rp side of things Smile




But I am against merging all of the archives. Why? Well, for one, sometimes it is impossible to search for a specific thing because we do not remember correctly the name of the topic on it. Sometimes, I have needed to search manually in specific years.

I am 100% against public archives as every (or so it seems) forum 2 provincial council or institution has private archives. I have no trouble opening archives of frivolous things, but I am strongly against open archives for most things.
Also, even if they are private, we would loose classification of many archives. Some are used by year, other are used by congregation and have no definitive split. Some, as said before, cannot be easily searched. Seriously, if I try to look up a key word or two, I can pull up dozens of old topics, if not more. It is simply impractical, in my eyes, to stick everything together. Searches aren't always 100% precise. But searching in specific sub-forum archives always narrows down the possibilities.

Also, having separate archives means that some topics can be found easily. And thus, some archives can be controlled by people working in that Congregation, and will not be touched by people not given the proper keys. It is also a matter of confidence that people won't go around modifying stuff in the archives.

Furthermore, unless the archives are only accessible by Cardinals, it would break the RP rules of secrecy that is in many Congregations, Assemblies and in the Curia. It would render RP of "secret meetings" obsolete if anyone can eventually find it. And anyways, having a Cardinal-only archive is useless since you sometimes need to check old topics for various reasons. But if people working in a Congregation or Assembly can go inside the archives, and see things from other Assemblies/Congregations/Curia, then it completely renders secrecy useless. It completely renders many aspect useless in fact.

So frankly? I'd agree to a single cardinal-only archive. It will be a problem, it will be a pain to use. But I'll agree to that if you force us to follow your decision. I cannot support public archives or "bishop and higher only" access to the archives. Unless it is fully private, it would be unfair to force that upon us, the players here. No other institution, on the forum 1 or the forum 2, has archives that can be access by people who normally should not have access to the location used to discuss. If I can't see the archives of the french curia regis or the imperial council, I don't see why they should see ours. Likewise, if only bishop have access, then why have congregations if anyone can go find information that is suppose to be secret? What happens when people go to find the rp investigating them, so that they can go get revenge on the original whistle-blower? What is the use of archives if only Cardinals can see them, thus giving them more work that they cannot delegate to the Congregation members/workers?

So, as a summary, I am sorry, but I cannot support your idea of merging all the archives, and I hope you understand my position. As forum admin, I respect your idea, but I simply must voice my disagreement.. in a respectful but very lengthy answer Smile

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Fenice
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MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 15, 2018 9:14 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I support LJD Hull's remarks.
Yes, this forum is huge and messy due to its very ramified growth, a cleaning and a tidying up are necessary, but too radical ideas generally create further problems instead of solving them.

Separate archives are necessary, because in a huge cauldron I will need too much time to search and find anything.
A simple example: let's assume that I need to know when Fenice appointed another character as apostolic ambassador of Siena, in a distant past. This is found in the archives of the Congregation for External Affairs. Currently I know how to find the document, I go to the archive and in a few minutes, scrolling back, I find what I need. If I had to search in a non-separate archive, doing the search by name "Fenice" I find all the posts and the topics I wrote, and they are thousands!

Second thing: why public archives? In forums 1 and 2 the Empire, the Councils of the principalities, the political parties, the families and many other groups have subforums and closed archives, which remain closed even after years. Nothing is ever moved to public sections. Why should this forum have a public archive? It would completely destroy all the roleplay of the Church and cause problems of resentment and revenge among players, as well as being illogical from every point of view.

Third thing: the sections of the various churches are a sign of equality of rights among the players. If I can find new "priests" in the Kalmar union tomorrow, the players would be right to feel offended if there was not a section for them here.

Fourth thing: I ask you to kindly wait for me to warn Italian players, who may not have seen this message, before cancelling the three things concerning the Italian church (the Beato Seneca and Platone rooms and the whole Cenacolum Episcoporum Italiae - CEI ).

Thank you

*****

Je soutiens les remarques de LJD Hull.
Oui, ce forum est énorme et désordonné en raison de sa croissance très ramifiée, un nettoyage et un rangement sont nécessaires, mais des idées trop radicales créent généralement d'autres problèmes au lieu de les résoudre.

Des archives séparées sont nécessaires, car dans un énorme chaudron, il me faudra trop de temps pour chercher et trouver quoi que ce soit.
Un exemple simple: supposons que je sache quand Fenice a nommé un autre personnage ambassadeur apostolique de Sienne, dans un passé lointain. Cela se trouve dans les archives de la Congrégation pour les Affaires du Siècle. Actuellement, je sais comment trouver le document, je vais aux archives et quelques minutes plus tard, je fais défiler en arrière, je trouve ce dont j'ai besoin. Si je devais chercher dans une archive non séparée, faire la recherche par nom "Fenice", je trouve tous les messages et les sujets que j'ai écrits, et ils sont des milliers!

Deuxième chose: pourquoi les archives publiques? Dans les forums 1 et 2 l'Empire, les conseils des principautés, les partis politiques, les familles et nombreux autres groupes disposent de sous-forums et d'archives fermées, qui restent fermées même après des années. Rien n'est jamais déplacé vers les sections publiques. Pourquoi ce forum devrait-il avoir des archives publiques? Cela détruirait complètement tout le jeu de rôle de l'Église et causerait des problèmes de ressentiment et de vengeance entre les joueurs, tout en étant illogique à tous points de vue.

Troisième chose: les sections des différentes églises sont un signe d'égalité des droits entre les joueurs. Si je pouvais trouver de nouveaux "prêtres" dans l'Union de Kalmar demain, les joueurs auraient bien raison de se sentir offensés s'il n'y avait pas de section pour eux ici.

Quatrième chose: je vous prie de bien vouloir attendre que les joueurs italiens, qui n'ont peut-être pas vu ce message, soient avertis avant d'annuler les trois choses concernant l'église italienne (les salles Beato Seneca et Platone et l'ensemble du Cenacolum Episcoporum Italiae - CEI).

Je vous remercie
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Sixtus
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MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 15, 2018 12:56 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Totally agree with what jd Hulla and Fenice said.
For my part, I think that among the sections you listed only these can be freely deleted.
Probably other sections of the English Church area are now useless and could be deleted, but I'd wait for any of the concerned players to intervene.

{LeuhTraiho} a écrit:

Sacro Ordine di Merito di San Samot e Paolo Apostoli - Nothing since July 2014 (order suppressed)
Office of the ESPC - Nothing since May 2015 (now part of the Curia)


And maybe these, if the CSA players are fine with it

{LeuhTraiho} a écrit:

Le campement des croisés - Nothing since May 2015.
Forteresse Kyrène - Nothing since June 2016


The others are either one use sections (mostly meeting rooms), whose topics are often then moved to the archives for privacy reasons, and linguistic sections that are there for language equality or very specific use (e.g. the tribunals that are only used if there is a trial)
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hull
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MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 15, 2018 2:46 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Cesarino a écrit:

And maybe these, if the CSA players are fine with it

{LeuhTraiho} a écrit:

Le campement des croisés - Nothing since May 2015.
Forteresse Kyrène - Nothing since June 2016


I personnally do agree, we do not use this area.
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Hadramasmatra



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MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 15, 2018 8:02 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

{LeuhTraiho} a écrit:

Církev Zemí koruny České - Église du Royaume Tchèque - Church of Corona regni Bohemiae - Nothing since November 2016


This section is inactive because we have few clergy. We use the section as an office where other countries can contact the Czech clergy and communicate with him. So, please do not delete it. We will need it.

Thank you. Wink
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pamelita
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MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 15, 2018 11:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Mrs. Admin forgive me, but apart from that if you join them all for us then it will be impossible to look for something. It is already so difficult, but at least now they are in place and we know where to look if we need something.
If you join them all it will become impossible to look for them without encountering many difficulties
it eliminates the parts of the forum that have not been used for years but the archives would be the case to leave them as they are now

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Gropius
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MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 16, 2018 12:02 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

{LeuhTraiho} a écrit:

L'Église du Royaume de Hongrie et de Croatie - Church of the Kingdom of Hungary and Croatia - Last activity on that forum is from September 2017 and before that it was October 2016. It's nearly one post every year.
Kościół Królestwa Polskiego - L'Église de la Pologne - Church of the Kingdom of Poland - Nothing since April 2016
Царство България - Église de Bulgarie - Church of Bulgary Same as previous, nothing since a June 2017 and there's nearly one post every year.
L'Église de l'Union de Kalmar - Church of the Kalmar Union - Last post was an update of the roster on the Church, no real activity since 2012.
Église du principalat de Valahia - Church of the Principality of Valahia - Nothing since 2012 for that forum.
Српска Црква - L'Église du Royaume de Serbie - Church of the Kingdom of Serbia - Last activity was in 2018, but there's nearly one post every year.
Kisha e Arbërisë - L'Église d'Albanie - Church of the Kingdom of Albania - Nothing since October 2016
Církev Zemí koruny České - Église du Royaume Tchèque - Church of Corona regni Bohemiae - Nothing since November 2016


Although these forums are not very active, they represent the possibility for players in those geographical areas to find a place for them here in the Rome forum. Please leave them as they are; we are also starting to work now to reactivate those rooms.
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{LeuhTraiho}



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MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 20, 2018 5:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thanks everyone for the feedback you gave. Of course, we'll not delete forum or fuse the without talking with you first. You are the one who are using those forum, so you better know than everyone else if they are usefull or not. Wink That's why I did that topic in the first place.

@LJD Hull : I undestood what you said about archives, and I agree with you on the point, that some need to remain private.

@LJD Fenice :
  • First thing : You can use this http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/search.php, you can also you word like "And" "Or" and "Not" to specifiy your search. For exemple I did a seach with the following "I AND SUPPORT AND LJD" and it gave me two result, one was your message.
    I really think that the search function on the forum is a really powerfull tool as long as you know how to use it. Wink

  • Second thing : It was well explained by Hull, and I agree with that. On the roleplay point of view, it may not be a good thing to do.

  • Third thing : I was more like creating a section "Western church", that would regroup every chruch from the West part of the Europe, if I'm not wrong that regroup every unused church's forum. Maybe something like that would work ? I don't know, tell me.

  • Fourth thing : Of course I'll wait, that's why I created that post. If I didn't want your feedback and so on that subject, I would have just do my things without asking you, players. Wink


@Cesarino + Hull : Thanks for the feedback on those forums.

@Hadramasmatra : See the answer to the third point of Fenice and tell me if this would be ok ? Wink

@pamelita : See the answer to the first point of Fenice.

@Gropius : See the answer to the third point of Fenice and tell me if this would be ok ? Wink
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estevan



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MessagePosté le: Dim Déc 02, 2018 9:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonsoir je rebondis sur ce topic parce que j'avais pas vu. Donc je propose pour ma part que tous les archives non confidentielles soient mises dans une archive général. Et tous les sous forum verrouillés soient finalement supprimés avec les archives conservés. On peut ensuite laisser pour les sous forum aux forums institutionnelles actuellement utilisés un sous forum archives. Cela suffit.


Pour les archives curie je dirais qu'on a besoin que d'un seul sous forum. Suffira ensuite de chercher dedans. De toute façon ils sont classés par ancienneté de sujet automatiquement non ? Donc pas besoin de faire un sous forum par année je dirais… Et oui la fonction recherche suffit pour trouver ce qu'on veut trouver.

Moi je veux bien qu'on supprime http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/viewforum.php?f=783 et mettre tout ce qu'il y a dedans dans les Archives de la Sainte inquisition Romaine.

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