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[DISCUSSION] Church Way Guide by MrGroar
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leanasidhe



Inscrit le: 08 Juil 2007
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MessagePosté le: Sam Juin 28, 2008 8:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

latan a écrit:
This is still under discusion (in red)
Citation:
# Ontology: Science of Being:

1. Master "Aristotle's Moral Principles" and "Logic" at 100%
2. Study alone or enroll in classes until you achieve 20%
3. Master "The Sense of Being" and "The Beginning of the World" at 100%
4. Study alone or enroll in classes until you achieve 70%
5. Read "Metaphysics Γ (Gamma)" and then enroll in classes or study alone until you achieve 100%


I have all of those and just need that book! It would be neat to at least see "Ontology" pop up in my list of skills, even if it was at 0%.
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Dainsleif



Inscrit le: 15 Avr 2007
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MessagePosté le: Dim Juin 29, 2008 1:20 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thank you for pictures Smile



Citation:
NOTE: no mention thus far of Aristotle's Moral Principles or the Roman Church? I've added them as Moral Skill Prerequisites.


The game divides them to 2 (well actually 3 with languages) - Morale and Theology. I guess we could divide them like that too.

* Languages
- Latin
- Greek
- Modern Languages

* Moral Skills
- Aristotle's Moral Principles
- The Roman Church: Organisation and History
- The Good
- Virtue
- Pleasure and Delight
- Temperance
- Justice
- Friendship
- A Seventh Thing

* Theology
- Logic
- The Sense of Being
- The Beginning of the World
- Theology: Science of the First Matters
- Ontology: Science of Being


Citation:
- I added The Republic. Does anyone know how much Greek it requires (in addition to the Modern Languages requirement)?


It should be 65+ too

La République - Platon - Grec : Français > 65% + 4% : L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité

From :http://rome.lesroyaumes.com/viewtopic.php?t=3203
Citation:

- I added a note about students not receiving much/any language skill from teachers with a similar level of language ability.


Its not entirely important, but you could mention the reverse technique.
http://forum.renaissancekingdoms.com/viewtopic.php?t=41814#809591
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GeorgeSilver



Inscrit le: 27 Avr 2007
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 02, 2008 3:30 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

This is incredible... WOW
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Eraine



Inscrit le: 30 Nov 2007
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 02, 2008 6:59 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

You're welcome, Dainsleif!

Thank you all for the diligent corrections. I think I've incorporated all of your suggestions now -- let me know if there's anything else I need to fix.
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Masked1
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 02, 2008 8:55 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thank you! I've collected some suggestions below. Forgive me that some are so petty... but the work is already so good Wink


Is it worth noting in Requirements section that those of the Medicine Way can change to Church Way? (as a weak bit of recruiting Laughing )

Eraine a écrit:
I added De Providentia. Can anyone confirm that 54% is the required amount of Latin?
I know that 61% will work fine.
This post in the University of Sussex indicates 54% is effective.

Citation:
Reading "The Symposium" gives "Things are Copies of the Ideas" at (Int/2) %
The book does not give that idea.

Citation:
Here are all the various stages of language skill required for the reading of books at the University library:
I am not sure whether the 60%, 65%, 85%, 89%, 25%, 65% listed are, as indicated, the skill required or one % less. In other guides. they are written like "> 65%" meaning that 66% would be the minimum. (For volumes of The NE, reading with 51% Greek is productive.)

Citation:
54% (or lower):
in the note referring to De Providentia, might it be better worded, "or possibly lower"?

Citation:
Read "Metaphysics Γ (Gamma)" and then enroll in classes or study alone until you achieve 100%
...
Reading "Parmenidas" gives "Things are Copies of the Ideas" at (Int/2) %
Would a note close to the citations, that those books are not available in England, Scotland, Ireland be useful? Sad There are others unavailable, but those seem the most important of the missing ones, no?

This guide in the University Library says regarding language studies:
Citation:
The stats for the nobles (divide by 2 if you're not a lord)
If the difference between the level of the professor and that of the student is
* more than 50%: the student increases his skill 7 to 12 points
* between 40 and 50 points: an increase of 6 to 10 points
* between 30 and 40: 5 to 8
* between 20 and 30: 4 to 6
* between 10 and 20: 2 to 5
* less than 10: 1 to 3
* less than 0: 0
Though I'm sure the last 0:0 is incorrect for IG nobles, I wonder would the others be useful in the guide section on language?

There is other (older?) information in the University library here
such as:
Citation:
The ideas believed less than 30% are not even indicated in the transcendental menu
Citation:
You can gain faith points by going to the mass, or listening to other religious event. The mass doesn't allow you to overtake +20 faith points. A lvl 0 can't go below -20 faith points.
Citation:
each day, a bishop earns 1000 PDT if his diocesis' faith didn't change + 1000 PDT for each faith point gained by day (of the average).
if the diocesis faith average has lowered, then he doens't earn this prime of 1000 PDT but in addition he loses 1000 PDT for each faith point lost (of the Average)
Note : Averages are done 2 float numbers behind the point.
the members of Diocesian council (except of the responsible of doctrine) does gain 60% of this prime (or penalty)
The responsible of the doctrine earn 90% of the prime or penalty of bishop
For priest, averages are only calculated at parish level.
The prime for priest whose parish faith is stable is 400 PDT, added by 300 PDT by gained point. (Penalty, same system)
Might some of that, if still valid, be useful?

Once more, Mother Eraine, GREAT WORK! THANK YOU!
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Eraine



Inscrit le: 30 Nov 2007
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 02, 2008 10:18 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Ok, I think I got most of that in there, now. This:

Citation:
The mass doesn't allow you to overtake +20 faith points.


either doesn't make sense to me, or it isn't right. I'm not sure which, and so I've left it out for now.
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Dainsleif



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Juil 03, 2008 8:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

If we assume 50 Faith Points is maximum - "You are a true believer", and if mass doesnt allow getting 20+ then the only alternative would be getting other 30 Faith points from preaching, which clearly isn't the case (there hasnt been so much preaching to begin with... at least for me)

So it does appear to be wrong or alternatively our understanding about Faith system is considerably wrong (may admins be forever damned for using words where simple numbers would do so much better). Either way it isnt verified truth so yes, we probably shouldnt mention it since all it would do is add more confusion.
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paullo



Inscrit le: 16 Déc 2007
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MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 05, 2008 3:12 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

May it be something interesting to add in the guide.

Prospero a écrit:
I posted some time ago in Rome and on the french speaking forum an important update for advanced theological skills prerequisites.

Contrary to what is commonly thought, you don't need BOTH the sense of being AND the beginning of the world for BOTH ontology AND theology.

Ontology requires:

Logic
Aristotle's morale
The reading of Methaphysics gamma
The sense of being (ontos=what is, in ancient greek)
and not the beginning of the world

Theology requires:

Logic
Aristotle's morale
The reading of Methaphysics alpha (A)
The beginning of the world (theos=god, in ancient greek)
and not the sense of being

I tested the first prerequisites myself, and graduated in ontology without having Beginning of the world very high (I had about45% if my memory's right)


http://forum.renaissancekingdoms.com/viewtopic.php?t=91004
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Eraine



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MessagePosté le: Dim Juil 06, 2008 2:26 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thanks Paullo, I've made the change now.
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Masked1
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MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 07, 2008 7:17 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bewildered and confused, Masked1 wanders into the hall of meeting, counting on his fingers and toes ....

Citation:
- 60- 69% : You completely agree with the idea that...
- 70- 79% : You completely subscribe to the idea that...


I think the translation of these levels has changed again, there are more levels than those listed or the lists are wrong.

I know that "You completely agree with the idea that..." is one step above "It seems reasonable to you to say that"
Now, I've been sent a TM copy that has both
"You are completely convinced that " and
"You completely agree with the idea that" for an idea below.

Are there more levels? or has "You completely subscribe to the idea that..." been replaced with "You are completely convinced that..."
Does anyone have a current TM with both levels?

I've observed the TM menu ideas always ordered from highest to lowest belief. Has anyone seen a counter-example?

EDIT:
If these are the only levels, then
"You are completely convinced that" is the 70-79% level

which seem to be in agreement with McGroar's French
Citation:
- 70- 79% : Vous êtes tout à fait convaincu que...


but differ from my earlier correction. Embarassed sorry
This is so confusing.
Masked1 takes his notes and retires to a corner to blush, mumble to himself and replace his shoes.
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latan
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 08, 2008 7:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

It is said that Beginning of the World has now a new requisite to get >50%
Can someone confirm?
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syounger
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 08, 2008 10:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I completely subscribe to the fact I’m completely convinced that I am totally confused. Laughing
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Dainsleif



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MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 08, 2008 10:27 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

You know that ?
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Dainsleif



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MessagePosté le: Mar Juil 08, 2008 10:32 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The translation module doesnt prove to be helpful either. I had hoped they were in some sort of order, but the lines are clearly randomly placed:

Citation:
It seems improbable to you that one can say that
You say to yourself that maybe
It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that
It seems reasonable to you to say that
You are completely convinced that
You know that
You're sure that
A strange idea sometimes comes to your mind without convincing you completely
You completely agree with the idea that
You have wholly grasped the idea that
What nonsense to think that
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latan
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MessagePosté le: Mer Juil 16, 2008 7:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Here is some experience to detail the impact of ideas on faith:

Before i came to Oxford to study i was sure that metaphysics is the science of what is, as it is: being is being.

After reading 3 times Metaphysics A:

Citation:
You have wholly grasped the idea that metaphysics is the study of first principles.

&

You say to yourself that maybe metaphysics is the science of what is, as it is: being is being.


and i fel down from You are a believer to You are almost a believer..

After a fourth reading (tomorrow) i'll confirm that my opposite idea will have disappeared. I wonder if my faith will go down more.

Edit: after a 4th reading i'm still stucked at "You have wholly grasped" and the opposite idea is still there Sad
I'll try a 5th reading today...

Edit2: i received the answer. I shall wait for the opposite idea to disapear, because as long as i have both opposite ideas, both are dicreasing each day, so i can not reach 100% by reading the book.

Edit 3
After a 5th reading (5th day)
fell down to:
A strange idea sometimes comes to your mind without convincing you completely: metaphysics is the science of what is, as it is: being is being.
& still:

You are almost a believer

Edit4: on the 6th day, without reading this time
You know that metaphysics is the study of first principles.
and
A strange idea sometimes comes to your mind without convincing you completely: metaphysics is the science of what is, as it is: being is being.
&
You are almost a believer.
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Dernière édition par latan le Sam Juil 19, 2008 12:16 pm; édité 3 fois
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