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[RP]Cell St. Thomas
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hull
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Inscrit le: 11 Mai 2009
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 14, 2016 5:38 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hull smiled.

"Keeping the Dogma intact is the main important thing. But, if the reformed church wishes to keep a changed canon law, it could be done with special rights written in a concordat. Concordats are local adaptations of the Canon Law.

By the Canon Law, we could also recognize a Autonomous Aristotelian Church. This AAC must follow and recognize the Dogma, but can do other things relatively freely. Also, the AAC is directed by a Patriarch. A patriarch is, by Canon Law, the equivalent of a Roman Cardinal. We could also right in the treaty the position of two Vice-Patriarchs who would equal national cardinals, or of a second Patriarch... the discussed treaty could contain many advantages.

You may read the rules of the Canon Law concerning an AAC on this document.

As such, the churches in the British Isles could form various autonomous churches, a single autonomous church, or maybe unite the two current churches in existence under one special concordat.
"
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Hugh_



Inscrit le: 26 Fév 2016
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 14, 2016 7:27 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh took the document and smiled to the Cardinal " Well, I will show this to my colleague. England has only one Aristotelian Church. There is another church in the North , who controls a village. They are heretics, they feel it's not necessary to believe in Jah to become a Clergy. They don't even follow any dogma and claim themself as Aristotelians to fool honest people." he sighs.
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hull
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 14, 2016 7:35 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hull nodded his head.

"I said churches since technically, currently, there are a few members of the clergy who recognize Rome and not the reformed church of England. But that can be easily mended in the reformed church is recognized, under certain conditions, thus uniting all the clergy together.

Except for that heretic church you mentioned ^^
"
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 14, 2016 10:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh smiled and nodded " Completely understandable, I already opened a discussion regarding this matter. It might take some reasoning, but I might be able to figure something useful.

On another matter, how is the Curia doing? "

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hull
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 14, 2016 11:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Smiled from the corner of his mouth.

"We are currently dealing with a spring cleaning.

Of course, if you have any more specific question, I would be happy to enlighten you.
"
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 12:39 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh chuckled.

" I heard some rumours about the Camelengo. Are you runing for the position?"
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hull
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 1:06 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hull laughed.

"I was not eligible at the last elections. For the next elections... that is a possibility.

In the mean time, if you are implying what I think you are implying, I will not deny said rumors. It is part of life, to be held accountable in front of the eyes of Jah.
"
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 1:29 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

He smiled and nodded " It seems , my colleagues are interested in AAC.

Out of curosity , Patriarchs will be admitted to Curia as cardinals?"

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hull
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 4:38 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

"According to the Canon Law, they hold equivalent title and meet in an ecumenical synod.

The Sacred College remains an institution containing all cardinals. Admittance to it you probably require a debate. And, then again, it would be as an observer. Why? Well because an AAC is not the official Church, and it can have a different Canon Law according to our Canon Law.

Even if the rank is deemed equivalent, the Patriarch would only have a say to what touches directly his AAC. If a patriarch would like to be a cardinal by title, that would require mending the schism and having you abandon your changed Canon Law. A concordat can enable special local changes to the Canon Law, but that would be getting overly complicated. An AAC with an observer seat in the Curia would be already a good step forward.

But I will listen to your thoughts on the matter.
"
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 5:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh smiled politely and nodded " It's understandable. And we will mediate on that matter.

But I was wondering, I'm an Englishman and a Clergy of The English Church. If I'm not a patriarch of the AAC and want to be a Cardinal of the mother church, will it be possible?"

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hull
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 7:58 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hull smiled.

"We currently have 1 national elector Cardinal and 1 national suffragan Cardinal. There is currently another position of national suffragan Cardinal available.

But a Cardinal must respect the Dogma and Canon Law. Since you follow a different Canon Law, that would be problematic. Unless, of course, you recognized formally the Canon Law of the Aristotelian and Roman Church.

This eventuality could be done through a Concordat enabling specific special permissions to the local clergy of the reformed Aristotelian Church. What could be done is an AAC to get a foothold in the matter, then do a transition to becoming an official part of the Church. Or, by having a meeting with the two current national Cardinals, we could arrange a proposal and nomination. After all, by Canon Law, the pontifical consistories have the right to name who they wish. That is, as long as the Curia does not successfully oppose the nomination by a vote of the majority of elector Cardinals.
"
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 15, 2016 9:48 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh smiled and nodded " I think , We have an Elector for the English Speaking country, Statler but he is a scot and we are English. Who is the other cardinal?

And I was also wondering when will the Camelengo election start? If you become The Camelengo, it will certain help us to work on the AAC treaty."

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hull
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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 16, 2016 2:36 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

"He is part of the English Consistory... the consistory covers all of the faithfuls in the countries were the primary language is English.

Likewise, the French Consistory covers part of the Holy Roman Empire, and the primacy of France, the primacy of Brittany... it covers a geodogmatic zone of french speaking faithfuls.
"

He smiled.

"As for the elections... they are held one month before the entry of function, which is the 1st of April and the 1st of October, each year."
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Nicolino



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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 16, 2016 4:54 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Nicolás heard the conversation between Hull and Hugh, and he added:

-Well, Hugh, I think His Eminence Hull gave you a few alternatives, according the current rules. One is to keep the Church of England autonomous with a Patriarch and its own rules, and the other option to it, is to become a full member of the Roman Church, which the chance to appoint cardinals: and I really believe you have the potential to join the Sacred College. Whatever you choose, we will help you.

But that's the Canon Law today, same for the Primacies and the Consistories and the geodogmatical zones and the rules and everything else. With the new changes, all of this could just...vanish. Like magic.

And all the old rules, the old traditions - and surely many of the old cardinals - could be gone, thrown from a window.

You, and the English Church, have an opportunity to make a clean start, and help us to create a new Church, stronger than ever, which won't be Roman or Reformed, but the only, and single, Aristotelic Church, with a College of Cardinals and a Pope to rule us, elected by them.

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A schism? Just try it. I will strip you of all you have...
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Hugh_



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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 16, 2016 3:38 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hugh listened to the both cardinals and nodded " Well, If the camelengo election is in April then it will be two months before the reformation... it is a small window.." He took a pause to gather his thought, " In England , we have seven dioceses and three archdioceses and in Scotland, one diocese and one archdiocese with alot of empty local parish churchs.

Problem is if I tell my colleagues that we have one cardinal elector and he is a Scot, I don't think they will be very happy about it. Also in temporal world, Scots are just troublemakers; divided in two counties , who are always fighting.

No disrespect to Cardinal Statler but I don't think, he holds enough influence to convince my colleagues. In given situation , I personally think , English archbishops and bishops will be very much inclined to be sign AAC treaty rather than becoming a full member of the Roman Church."
He said thoughtfully.

"It's sad but in reality , the most of the English noblity looks down to Roman Clergies, their ranks as clergy are already redundant from Heraldry. Aside for Father Vanyar, Hannah Balintyne, (who is my archdeaconess) or Father Ashton; who are rarely active, the only active Roman Clergy is a spanish Lady, who was or is still married with a finnish nobleman and an ambassador. And without being condensing ,I think , she has some difficulties to understand the English people...

The Last English Cardinal appointed by Rome was Catriona Mackenzie , she was very haughty and treated common people with pure contempt. I can understand that Cardinals are the Prince of Church but in a situation, where we have to show people the love of our heavenly father and earn their trust, humility is primodial.

As for me, I'm grand nephew of King Slon I of England, who was the patron and one of the founder of the Reformed Church. And he firmly believed that Rome falls to understand the need of our people and the examples I have given, doesn't help to contradict him.

Despite that I don't agree with him, I think our future lies together. We can achieve greatness but we need to have faith in eachother. We can't allow misunderstanding and vices come in our path. Rome need to take the time to understand the English people. And to understand them, Rome need to appoint compassionate and humble clergies, who are eloquent and capable to hold public offices."

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