L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Kalixtus]

Since the German Throne is in the Aachen Cathedral, this would certainly not be a problem. The German Zone welcomes a mass in the throne room because the throne bows to the power of God.

At least in Germany. But nations certainly differ on that.

But I know what you mean.

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[Francesco_maria]

"One thing is not clear to me. If they don't want to deal with the Aristotelian Church why waste time performing a ritual in the cathedral? They could do it in the square or in the imperial palace without having to mix with ecclesiastical things.

This is effectively another trap:
- if we grant the cathedral we demonstrate that the excommunication has practically no value.

- if we don't grant it, we give him a pretext to widen the wound between Church and Empire even further.

What the card. Felipesays is true. Our duty is to defend the True Faith and Dogma but on the other hand it is also true that we must also protect the Holy Aristotelian Church as an institution and make political choices.

We need to study a third way that could save both of these aspects.

It could be proposed that this farewell ceremony be celebrated in the square in front of the cathedral of Strasbourg and that perhaps at the end a prelate (clearly not one on the black list) will make a moment of prayer for the Empire, blessing those present."
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[Felipe...]

Too late, Cardinal Francesco. The ceremony will begin in just a few hours. The decision should have been made days ago.

The only thing we can do is a mass of reparation the day after the profanation of the cathedral ends.

Clearly we must promulgate an edict, I don't know whether the curia or the imperial primacy, to regulate the use of the cathedral.
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_______.______Sanctae Mariae Rotundae cardinalis episcopus | Archiepiscopus Burdigalensis
__________..Secretarius brevium ad Principes | Sanctae Sedis Vice-cancillarius et Magnus Auditor

[Adonnis]

Since the death of Cardinal Arduino, the Cathedral of Strasbourg has not had a formal titular holder. As far as I know - the Cardinals of the Empire may correct me - this Cathedral is the main Cathedral of the SRING.

I suppose that, like all National Churches, it is under the care of the Episcopal Assembly of the Holy Roman Empire.

Well, following everyone's suggestions, I present this first draft announcement. I admit that I am not in my most inspired moments to write, but I tried to present something that meets everyone's understanding.

What do you think?




Citation:

Initially, we would like to inform our beloved sons and daughters in the Holy Roman Empire, that Holy Mother Church stands with everyone in support and comfort at this time of transition. However, we need to make a few clarifications. First and most important of all clarifications, we would like to inform you that the Holy Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church does not support and does not recognize the acts of the pseudo group of Roman Aristotelians who attempted against the life of the Empress. On the contrary, no order has been given by the Church in this sense, and the Sacred College of Cardinals is open to receive information about any of the murderers who carried out their barbaric acts using the name of the Roman Aristotelian Church, trying to pass the false idea that the Church supported or, worse, orchestrated this act. These people, when identified, will be presented to the Ecclesiastical Courts where they will answer for having used the name of the Church, the Faith and God in these acts. Secondly, there is much talk about the Church making political and discriminatory decisions between one nation and another, and these rumors have gained more consistency with the excommunication of the Empress Adaliena. However, it is necessary to inform you that the Church has no political interest that justifies influencing the decisions of the Sacred College of Cardinals or any Congregation or Dicastery of the Roman Curia. The Dogma and Doctrine teaches us that excommunication is a situation in which the Aristotelian faithful are placed when they commit acts against God and against his teachings. With this, we must remember that a decree of excommunication only "recognizes" and "formalizes" an already existing state. After all, apostolic excommunication is an automatic state, an immediate by-product created by crimes against the faith committed by a Faithful. The Holy Mother Church is never pleased or proud to acknowledge a state of excommunication that a Faithful has placed himself in. From the simplest peasant to the Monarch of a Kingdom or an Empire, all are equally important and valuable to God and the Church, and acknowledging the errors of a soul is always painful and saddening. Likewise, there is, under no circumstances, the possibility of a preference between one nation or another and even a protectionism between one nation or another. The Cardinals of Holy Church, gathered in the Sacred College, are Roman citizens, detached from any sense of nationality or protectionism, who deliberate and decide in the best interest of the Institution and of the Faith that they have sworn to defend with their own blood, if need be. Finally, we would like to express our regret, sadness and horror to know that acts are being carried out to control the Strasbourg Cathedral in order to use it as the site of the Funeral of an Excommunicated Faithful, since excommunication prohibits and removes the performance of any sacrament. The Holy Church still looks forward to resolving its differences with the Government of the Empire and prays that no hostile acts will be committed against the sanctity of the Aristotelian temples.

_________________

.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

The CESE as we call the Episcopal Assembly of the HRE is located in Trier not in Straßburg.

An IP Diocese can't be the main diocese of an EA what a silly idea would that be.

Thus, Strasbourg is not part of the EA but is under the administration of Rome and its institution. In my opinion the chancellery. But there I do not want to interfere.

The National Church has in any case nothing to do with it. We reside in Trier.

The text should also address the fact that fake priests have been appointed who are not listed in Roman registers, and one might think that these priests might have come from the very group of heretics who murdered the empress.

Perhaps you should also point out the dimension of such a process, since all the participants excommunicate themselves when they take part in it.

So when you talk about excommunication not being a weapon, not being a political instrument, a regrettable aspect. Then the church should also realize that there are heaps of people sitting there who know all this and who don't give a damn about Rome's decisions.

That means actually Rome, if bound to its own word, should excommunicate all those.

But once again I don't expect the consistency of this body to excommunicate the almost complete establishment of the Empire.

I think this fickleness is part of the problem with the Church. We have these two sides - the side that tries to provide solutions in coexistence and the other side that tries to enforce the canons but has bite inhibitions when it comes to the ultimate consequence because everybody here knows that you can't excommunicate the entire establishment of a state. Because if you did, the local church would be dead.

Therefore, the public excommunication proclamation of the empress or the queen or of isolated people is always only a pawn, always only a staging from which one never draws the full consequence.

Because one knows instinctively or secretly, in the end, the way that people like me choose is the only one to be able to maintain a coexistence at all.

This discrepancy in Rome's actions is much more likely, much more dramatic and much more lasting to frustrate people. Because they understand that Rome does not act consistently, but only symbolically.

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[Adonnis]

To have several people who have the knowledge that excommunication is not a political instrument and yet ignore this teaching shows us a much bigger problem that has a rather different connotation than what we have been discussing here. However, this does not make it unnecessary for us to repeat it once again.

After all, it seems, even if "that there are heaps of people sitting there who know all this and who don't give a damn about Rome's decisions", the rumor is that the Church is using excommunication as a political weapon. And it seems to me that this assertion has become a very common jargon lately in the Empire.

As for the fact that there are several people supporting a pseudo-funeral, we should also not be so linear and "excommunicate everyone", because this shows a problem with a much deeper dimension and indicates that the voice of "those who really defend the Church and God's teachings" is being deafened by the voice "of those who pretend to defend the Church or simply don't defend it".

But your argument "maybe" has a logical sense, when you talk about the excommunication of isolated people. But you should expand your theory and re-present it in a wider sphere - including the mistakes and successes we have made on the occasions when you yourself, unlike now, have been steadfast and voracious in defending these canons you speak of and have been adamant in acting otherwise: like the excommunication of Copona, as just one example.

Restate your theory considering all the variables. What made you change your decision? What do you think needs to be rethought? Because with the clothes that your theory currently wears, the only thing possible to see is: "I defend Adaliena because she supported me and I supported the excommunication of Copona because he attacked me personally".

Well, since there were no notes about changes in the announcement, I will publish it.



Citation:

Considerations about the occurrences in the Holy Empire We, the Cardinals of the Holy Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church, reunited in our Sacred College, under the Light of Saints and Prophets and by the Grace of the Most High and of the His Holiness Sixtus IV, Initially, we would like to inform our beloved sons and daughters in the Holy Roman Empire, that Holy Mother Church stands with everyone in support and comfort at this time of transition. However, we need to make a few clarifications. First and most important of all clarifications, we would like to inform you that the Holy Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church does not support and does not recognize the acts of the pseudo group of Roman Aristotelians who attempted against the life of the Empress. On the contrary, no order has been given by the Church in this sense, and the Sacred College of Cardinals is open to receive information about any of the murderers who carried out their barbaric acts using the name of the Roman Aristotelian Church, trying to pass the false idea that the Church supported or, worse, orchestrated this act. These people, when identified, will be presented to the Ecclesiastical Courts where they will answer for having used the name of the Church, the Faith and God in these acts. Secondly, there is much talk about the Church making political and discriminatory decisions between one nation and another, and these rumors have gained more consistency with the excommunication of the Empress Adaliena. However, it is necessary to inform you that the Church has no political interest that justifies influencing the decisions of the Sacred College of Cardinals or any Congregation or Dicastery of the Roman Curia. The Dogma and Doctrine teaches us that excommunication is a situation in which the Aristotelian faithful are placed when they commit acts against God and against his teachings. With this, we must remember that a decree of excommunication only "recognizes" and "formalizes" an already existing state. After all, apostolic excommunication is an automatic state, an immediate by-product created by crimes against the faith committed by a Faithful. The Holy Mother Church is never pleased or proud to acknowledge a state of excommunication that a Faithful has placed himself in. From the simplest peasant to the Monarch of a Kingdom or an Empire, all are equally important and valuable to God and the Church, and acknowledging the errors of a soul is always painful and saddening. Likewise, there is, under no circumstances, the possibility of a preference between one nation or another and even a protectionism between one nation or another. The Cardinals of Holy Church, gathered in the Sacred College, are Roman citizens, detached from any sense of nationality or protectionism, who deliberate and decide in the best interest of the Institution and of the Faith that they have sworn to defend with their own blood, if need be. Finally, we would like to express our regret, sadness and horror to know that acts are being carried out to control the Strasbourg Cathedral in order to use it as the site of the Funeral of an Excommunicated Faithful, since excommunication prohibits and removes the performance of any sacrament. The Holy Church still looks forward to resolving its differences with the Government of the Empire and prays that no hostile acts will be committed against the sanctity of the Aristotelian temples. Given in Rome, on the twenty-eighth day of May in the Year of Grace MCDLXXI, V of the Pontificate of His Holiness Sixtus IV and III of the Age of Restoration of the Faith Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam! His Eminence Adonnis Ferreira de Queirós Silva e Sagres Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalis Decanus

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

Copona may have threatened me personally and sent someone to kill me, but no other emperor has ever done that.

But of course there are elementary distinctions in the quality of things:

Copona:
launched a war against Rome
usurped the lands of the Papal States
blacklisted all cardinals and clergymen
founded a schism
conquered the dioceses (except the Germans, who resisted)

Adaliena
created an institution to give non-Aristotelians the possibility of secular marriage
created marriage for homosexuals

You see one acted in destruction and hatred and the other under the impression of love.

So if love does not take precedence - then we have a problem. Rome and also you consider the dogma linear and not hierarchical - an elementary difference of intellectual, semantic and scientific nature.

That is why you are not able to recognize my thoughts and distill the truth. I do not blame you from this. It takes a great deal of understanding of the subject matter to fathom the mysteries of dogma. This requires the most intense and prolonged studies. To which only a few are capable and even fewer are willing.

But even for you, it should be obvious that the two emperors had completely different motives to go their way.

It might have been enough to write an interdict - but this House here decided to equate Adaliena's action, which did not arise from any malice, with the terrible and bloody war that Copona instigated.

Therein rests an elementary difference and beware of speaking that I would enjoy advantages.

I am also being sued in the Imperial Court for defending the faith. No bonus is obtained for me anywhere.

That you and your friends, of course, do not excommunicate everyone, although they are all guilty of taking part in the event - I was already aware of that. You are just not interested in really biting. You'd rather lick the steak than bite it.

A tiger without teeth. Excommunication of a dying empress is of course convenient, and convenience is something I fundamentally reject.

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[Adonnis]

You are still stuck with your sophisms. And likewise, the idea that you are the only one in the current history of the Church who truly knows the Dogma, just because you want to convince everyone that your current interpretation of it is the only true one.

Adaliena needed the support of the Imperial Diet to create, extinguish or modify a law, obviously. But as an Aristotelian Empress, she chose to pass, rather than veto, a Law that undoubtedly affronted Aristotelian Dogma and Doctrine, which went in the opposite direction to the position of Defender of the Faith, which she was supposed to respect and adopt.

And whether you like it or not, Dogma and Doctrine point to the impossibility of everything that this Imperial Law approved, adopted and instituted.

Those were the reasons why the Sacred College ruled for the excommunication of the Empress.

But, sincerely, I do not intend to debate with you any further on this subject, because instead of discussing facts, you remain stuck in your sophisms like a street dog that holds in its teeth a bone it has found.

So I can invite you to start a debate about lifting her excommunication, pointing out the flaws that the Sacred College made in its analysis, and a debate about how to solve the problems between Rome and the Empire. Obviously, you are not the only cardinal who resides in the Empire, but as someone so "influential," "wise," and "the only knower of the Dogma in our Age," I believe you can bring ideas and projects that will really brighten our obscure, obtuse, and limited understandings.

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.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

You disqualify yourself as a serious interlocutor, let alone a scientific protagonist, when you feed your argument with slander, insults, ironizations, and misplaced actionism.

I have wasted enough of my precious time, in the past, listening to your vacuous platitudes and propping you up in your inactivity and lack of viewing paradigms.

I would be willing to have a serious debate, however, you are not because you are acting like a small child wanting a lollipop.

Unfortunate example of a cardinal and unworthy of the position you currently hold.

This text weakens the church more and proofs the critics - that you are a tiger with no teeth.

I waste not my time in proofing my enemies right. Thats more your business. Have fun.

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[Adonnis]

Adonnis shrugged his shoulders

_________________

.....Cardinal-Presbyter of Saint Anthony of the Portuguese / Grand Audiencier of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
...............Primate of Portugal / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real / Duke of Monte Real