L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Cathelineau]

It is an incredible territory. There is nothing good there and we must not give the slightest credit to this small group. If we put this text on the index we recognize de facto this illegal authority and they will be happy with that when we have gained nothing. Tell yourself that the danger is so great that we track down the Angevins of some kinds who come to our house, this morning again we executed one.
And my policy will remain so until the annihilation of this group.
_________________

[Pie de Valence]

These are people with no laws. If I had a modern term for Anjou today, I would call it a terrorist state. Enslaved to the Creature Without a Name, they only think of spreading evil, looting, rendering unfair decisions of justice... The moderate Angevins have ended up either unmasking, or they hide at home and no longer dare to show themselves in public, for fear of being punished by the authorities.

---------------------------

Sono persone senza tempo, senza legge. Se avessi un termine moderno da applicare all'Angiò attuale, parlerei di Stato terrorista. Asserviti alla Creatura Senza Nome, pensano solo a diffondere il male, saccheggiare, emettere sentenze ingiuste... Gli Angioini moderati hanno finito per smascherare o per nascondersi a casa e non osano più o mostrarsi in pubblico, per paura di subire la vendetta delle autorità.
_________________
"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Felipe...]

Unfortunately I do not agree with you. Our moral obligation is to condemn any attack against the Church; clearly the criminals will not care about our condemnation, it is a common behaviour we are used to: the condemned will always reject the law in order to feel justified in their behaviour. But we have an obligation to our Church, to our faithful and to the sacredness we are sworn to defend. Moral lukewarmness is the beginning of the destruction of the Good.

However, if you think it is better to proceed with the indexing discreetly without additional announcements, I will submit to the opinion of the majority of our brother cardinals.
_________________

_______.______Sanctae Mariae Rotundae cardinalis episcopus | Archiepiscopus Burdigalensis
__________..Secretarius brevium ad Principes | Sanctae Sedis Vice-cancillarius et Magnus Auditor

[Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia]

The solution proposed by His Eminence Felipe is, in my opinion, the best.
It is our obligation to shield any attack on the True Faith and on the Church, however, we can do so without legitimizing this madman by ascribing his nonsense as that of a nobody.
_________________
+ Ettore Asburgo D'Argovia
Cardinale-Presbitero di San Barnaba a Ripa
Arcivescovo Metropolitano de L'Aquila
Decano del Tribunale della Rota Romana
Ufficiale dell'Ordine pontificio di Nicola V

[Cathelineau]

It's a nice speech but putting the text on the index is not a concrete solution. Opposite they rackete and attack a bishop that our episcopal assembly has appointed. Opposite they are looting our dioceses, opposite they are playing with a cardinal whom they want to have crushed by an army. Want a solution? Using the papal nobility by mobilizing everyone, let's talk threesome between Brittany, the Church and the next King to crush these rebels. If we're not ready to do that then let's stop bragging in the announcements.
_________________

[Francesco_maria]

[Felipe...]

[Pie de Valence]

I fully agree with His Eminence Felipe.
I have also just asked the Consistory francophone for the excommunication of Monseigneur de Louvelle, accomplice of this deception. He has allied himself politically with the criminals who are currently running Anjou and continues not to respond to the messages and proposals made to him. This joke has lasted long enough: we must sanction this text and sanction the bishops who are complicit in such ignominies.

------------------------

Concordo pienamente con Sua Eminenza Felipe.
Ho anche appena chiesto al Concistoro francofono la scomunica di monsignor Louvelle, complice di questo inganno. Si è alleato politicamente con i criminali che attualmente dirigono l'Angiò e continua a non rispondere ai messaggi e alle proposte che gli sono stati fatti. Questa battuta è durata abbastanza: bisogna sanzionare questo testo e sanzionare i vescovi che si fanno complici di tali ignominie.
_________________
"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Kalixtus]

But what do all these actions achieve more than pure symbolism?

Sanctions that benefit no one, neither Rome nor the faithful. Putting all these questions on the index are actions of a toothless tiger to which no secular empire is oriented any more.

In the Italian part of the empire, there were whole competitions about who was excommunicated, how and why, and they were treated like trading cards. Something similar could be admired in France many years ago.

It will be noticed in Anjou and then they will laugh about it in the tavern and then they will move on.

Just like it happens in France or the Empire with orders, sanctions, excommunications etc etc.

These things were written to protect the faithful, you might then say Cardinal Felipe. But in fact the opposite happens.
The faithful come under repression. The faith flees underground, people are no longer safe from state repression and the Church has no power to protect the faithful but demands behaviour and resistance from the faithful. But the price is not paid by the cardinals in Rome and certainly not by the chancery in Rome but by the people on the ground, who seem to become meaningless pawns of a Cardinal Felipe who seems to be more interested in observing norms and maintaining the index than in the fate of good Aristots.

So I expect from you, Cardinal Pie, an otherwise vaunted far-sightedness for the French cause.

That is what Cardinal Francesco was getting at, not a lecture on canonical concessions, which we are all well aware of.

So we need to think further than just registering something to fulfil a self-serving or self-indulgent end. We need to actively do something so that faith and the Church does not have to flee underground, as is happening in other places through this indexation, or through the excommunication of people.

What other options and ways may there be? This is the creative and sensible thought the Curia should be thinking and not stoically following a path that is of no benefit to anyone and least of all the good souls of Anjou.

It needs a plan with several lines and fronts - but that means intensive work on the object by the dean, the chancery, the diplomacy but also the military, the forces locally and around it.

We know too little, we do too little, we are too few and we have no answers except Felipe's tragic attempt to reveal a non-existent authority through the index.

Too little!

As a toothless tiger, you can start sucking the meat you want to bite into, maybe that will help.

_________________

[Cathelineau]

Putting the text on the index is just a show, in addition to the recognition granted to Anjou.

So Alright, that's the procedure, and then what? That's the only thing the church is going to do against those lame ducks who are plundering her dioceses and spitting on them!

They are 140, in a surrounded province where only Angers counts for them, the other cities are abandoned. For months they have been fleeing contact with my armies and when the war resumes the Church would be wise to be on this battlefield if it wants to regain some credibility.
_________________

[Pere_Setzefonts]

They also seem useless to me, but the energy of the Church must be shown. The big problem is the bad heads when things are taken for granted**



__________________________

FRP** I mean the acts caused by Celsius without being entrusted to such an important entity as the Church.
_________________

Monsenyor Pere Setzefonts i D'Entença
Cardenal diaca de Sant Posseidó de Montserrat, Arquebisbe de l'Arquidiòcesi Metropolitana de Tarragona, Mossèn de Vic, Membre de l'AEH, Baró Palatí de Sant Joan de Latran, Baró d'Entença, Vescomte del Comtat d'Osona, Senyor de la Coca de Sucre

[Francesco_maria]

"Thank you Cardinal Felipe for the explanation. But I didn't ask about the technical functioning or the legal justification of this choice. I have never denied the evidence. It is clear to all in this Sacred College that such an act is a violation of the Canon Law.

I was trying and hoping to be able to make a reflection starting from the question: what does the Church get after having banned the declaration of this false Archduke?

And you, Cardinal Felipe, keep saying: the law says so we do so.
Right and then?

In my mission as pastor in all the places I've been I've always been educated and I've always worked for the salvation of people and the good of the Holy Church. You don't always get the result but at least I know I tried. From your proposal it doesn't seem to me that solutions for the future and for salvation can be opened. But we simply put a stamp on this matter and it's closed for us. Let's move on to the next one.

I don't need you to explain to me how things work, what is missing on so many occasions in this Sacred College is a lack of vision for the good of the Aristotelian Community: our faithful.

This is not only politics but it is also pastoral, something for which every pastor (the name itself says it) should have a primary interest.

Without going further off topic, I believe that what is missing in this matter is also an opinion from the Apostolic Nunciature which should be at the forefront of this matter."
_________________

[Pie de Valence]

Walking on both legs would be ideal. Ideally :

- symbolically condemn the iniquitous texts of Anjou and the bishop Louvelle who collaborates with them and is even constable of Anjou,
- affirm that we do not recognize the current criminal authorities that govern Anjou without, for all that, ruling on the question of indepedance, which is of a political and non-religious nature,
- intervene militarily to put an end to this criminal, terrorist and mafia organization that controls Anjou.

--------------------------------

Camminare sulle nostre gambe sarebbe la situazione ideale. Idealmente, dovremmo :
- condannare simbolicamente i testi iniqui dell'Angiò e il vescovo di Louvelle che collabora con loro ed è anche connestabile d'Angiò,
- affermare che non riconosciamo le attuali autorità criminali che governano l'Angiò senza per questo pronunciarci sulla questione dell'indegnità, che è di natura politica e non religiosa,
- intervenire militarmente per porre fine a questa organizzazione criminale, terroristica e mafiosa che controlla l'Angiò.
_________________
"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Felipe...]

- Cardinal Francesco, it is also the duty of the Church to instruct and teach her faithful in what is right. Now it is Anjou, which is a bunch of criminals, but tomorrow it could be another region of France, or any other kingdom, where the authorities, even Aristotelian, believe they have the right to raid a diocese as if it were a secular office that any civil servant can run. That is why we must be clear at this point, and I do not care if the Angevins laugh at our statements: we must set a clear precedent.
_________________

_______.______Sanctae Mariae Rotundae cardinalis episcopus | Archiepiscopus Burdigalensis
__________..Secretarius brevium ad Principes | Sanctae Sedis Vice-cancillarius et Magnus Auditor

[Francesco_maria]

"I don't understand this intervention by card. Pie. Our problem is only related to the question of the election of the bishop of the diocese of Anjou.

The rest are political issues with which the Kingdom of France has to contend. An intervention by the military of the Holy Church is also unthinkable because we don't even have a soldier to send."