L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Kalixtus]

Dear colleagues,

In December last year, there was a vote within the CESE on the question whether the abbots of religious convents, especially IG abbeys, should be part of the assemblies.

This was confirmed by the CESE by consensus. Unfortunately, the Curia has so far failed to confirm this decision so that it can be incorporated into the statutes.

I would now like to make up for this.

The corresponding amendment is as follows:

[Urbain_mastiggia]

Simple, clear and logical.


- It sounds good to me. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to include these changes in the French statuts, too.

edit : sentence added.
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[Tymothé de Nivellus]

I thought that was already the case, so it actually seems nice to add it.
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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Francesco_maria]

"If I remember correctly, Canon Law expressly says that the rectors of the orders must be members of the Episcopal Assembly. There is no mention of the presence of the Abbots."
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[Urbain_mastiggia]

Reading again a text.


- I hadn't reread the passage in Canon Law concerning abbot fathers In Gratibus, but in fact they are subject to episcopal authority because they are responsible for a parish... As it stands, they cannot therefore claim to be members of an episcopal assembly.


He pouted, a little annoyed at having to change his mind, but also and above all because he hadn't checked before speaking.

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[Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia]

In this way, the word of all those clerics who have made monastic life their raison d'être can be heard and weighed. I like this very much.
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+ Ettore Asburgo D'Argovia
Cardinale-Presbitero di San Barnaba a Ripa
Decano del Tribunale della Rota Romana
Arcivescovo Metropolitano di Udine
Professore alla Pontifica Universitas Studiorum Aristoteliorum
Ufficiale dell'Ordine pontificio di Nicola V

[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – Nihil obstat. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Francesco_maria]

"Cardinal Asburgo d'Argovia the voice of the clerics who have chosen life in an Order already has its places where it can be "heard". The religious orders refer to the Congregation for the Diffusion of the Faith, so there is a place for them to be listened to and accompanied and it seems to me that work is also being done to put some things in order.

Cardinal Di Leostilla actually there is a big "obstat" and it is called Canon Law, with which apparently you are not familiar, if you take the trouble to read: Regimini regularis ecclesiae, Book 3.3:

[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – If I may say so, Your Eminence, the article of canon law to which you refer is, in my humble legal opinion, irrelevant.

You quote an article stating that rectors sit in the episcopal assembly of their residence. But there is no article stating that abbots are forbidden to sit in the said assemblies.

You would be right if His Eminence Kalixtus wanted to exclude the rectors from the episcopal assembly of the Holy Roman Empire. But this is not the case, he wants to extend the number of members.

And, as far as I know, canon law does not prohibit this, since it does not list the functions that are the only ones that can sit in an episcopal assembly. It does list the offices that give the right to sit on it. This is completely different in law. »

He paused for a moment, before giving Francesco a friendly smile.

« – I may not know canon law by heart yet, but I know how to read the law and understand it properly. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Urbain_mastiggia]

Urbain listened to the debate and found the Dean's argument lacking in depth.


- Perhaps our brother Dean wished to quote this article, which is much more appropriate.




The Canon Law of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church, Book 3. The Regular Clergy and the Roman Orders- Regimini regularis ecclesiae -, Book 3.3 Organisation of the regular clergy & Book 3.4 Specific functions of the In Gratibus abbey a écrit:

[...] High Abbot (abbey Res Parendo) Material cause: they have to be a priest at the time of his nomination. Efficient cause: they have to be nominated according to the rules of an ORP concerning the abbey Res Parendo. Formal cause: they depend on the standing internal rules. Final cause: they are the higher authority of a Res Parendo abbey. They may continue their extra muros activities as long as they maintain a strong bond with their intra muros life. [...] Abbot Father (abbey In Gratibus) Material cause: they have to be a clergyman subjected to the Canon and the hierarchy of the Holy Church. His candidacy has to be approved by the (arch)bishop of the diocese where the In Gratibus abbey belongs, or by its senior. Efficient cause: they are elected by the monks of the In Gratibus abbey. Formal cause: they have to be appointed by the appropriate (arch)bishop. Final cause : they are the higher authority of an In Gratibus abbey respecting the dogma, the Canon and the Roman hierarchy. They are obliged to live permanently in the abbey and, on diocesan level, they are totally equal to a clergyman, as regards even the submission to the power of the bishop who is responsible for the In Gratibus parish.



He added.


- It seems difficult to me to establish that a high abbot is the equivalent of a bishop when this is clearly indicated for the rector of the order on which the Res Parendo abbeys depend.

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[Francesco_maria]

"No no my quote was the correct one. As you say, Canon Law establishes who has the right to be in the Episcopal Assembly because it is their right to do so.

It is clear that Canon Law establishes who sits in the Episcopal Assembly for his office and not for other reasons. There are exceptions, already provided for by each Statute in which members with the right to speak may be admitted (with the approval of the Episcopal Assembly) and in this case the choice is linked to the person and not to the office.

If Canon Law specifies who sits in the Episcopal Assembly and who does not (they are called "members by right" for a reason) it is clear that where it is not stated it does not mean that "it is not prohibited" but simply that their office does not provide for this right."
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[Kalixtus]

As what I know, the Pope wanted to make a suggestion about that to offer it to the CESE.

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[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – However, there is nothing to prevent other texts from providing that functions give the right to sit on an Episcopal Assembly, as long as this is not strictly forbidden by canon law. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Sixtus]

Giving full membership in the episcopal assembly to each and every abbot, even those of the smallest minor convents, would be unreasonable as it would expand the membership potentially without limits.

The current proposal as it is therefore cannot be accepted.

We could, however, be open to the membership of the In Gratibus abbots, although as Cardinal Mastiggia has already said, they are in a position comparable to that of the presbyter of a parish.
This position, however, is a remnant of an era of conflict around the Tastevin Abbey, long occupied by a heretical sect that rejects the authority of the secular clergy, and we may review it in the near future by equating such In Gratibus abbots to bishops.

The choice, nevertheless, ultimately rests with the episcopal assembly of the holy empire.
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Eskerrik asko Iñési sinaduragatik

[Kalixtus]

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. I thought you would make a proposal, cause that we only put in the IG abbey was now not new information. CESE was waiting for a proposal, otherwise we already had made the debate within.

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