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Meeting with Adelene and Branwyn
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Adelene
Cardinal
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Inscrit le: 08 Juil 2020
Messages: 2920
Localisation: Villa Catena

MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 09, 2025 3:37 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

He had listened. Unsurprisingly. He bounced back.

    I'll get to the point. I've been very patient, and I've put a lot of water in my wine. But I reasonably lost my patience when the Prefect forbade me to discuss the Gregorian Order and the abbey with you and the Pope. Now, as you well know, this is a subject I began discussing with you a long time ago, long before Branwyn appeared in your prefecture, and it's a subject I've been discussing for even longer with the Pope. I don't see why I should now be deprived of these exchanges, which the prefect has nothing to say about. A cardinal is free to choose what he says and with whom he speaks, and in no way should he be forbidden to do so by a prefect of the Roman Chapter.

    Furthermore, what confirmed my anger was Branwyn's obvious bad faith regarding the order allegedly imposed within a ceremony such as ours. This ceremony, which is extremely rare, has had to be discussed for a very long time in order for us to be able to exhume a procedure, since it no longer appears clearly in our canon law. With the help of the Pope and you, Kalixtus, we managed to draw up a roadmap, which I have stuck to. According to it, the oaths and the consecration of the whole abbey were to take place in one and the same ceremony, without it ever being explicitly stated that the oaths were a prerequisite for the consecration. Since Branwyn refused to admit it, I had to show him your letter, Kalixtus. And then Branwyn gave a very dubious demonstration to reach the conclusion that your words meant that oaths were a prerequisite.

    I tried to make Branwyn understand that she had repeatedly overstepped her rights and that her outrageous behaviour towards me was disrespectful. But to no avail, and Branwyn's stubbornness and disrespect continued, until she finally informed me that she would do everything in her power to ensure that the abbey was never consecrated and that the Gregorian Order was never recognised, which I take very seriously as a total abuse of power and corruption.

    I therefore expect that first Branwyn will be able to offer me a humble and sincere apology for the outrage and the threats. I think it's even essential that she publicly apologise to all the members of the Gregorian Order, because her behaviour affects more than just me. But it seems to me that this cannot be without a strong sanction that will allow him to reflect on his actions, his behaviour and his duties. It is important for her to realise that her current position is intended to serve the Church, and not to flatter her personal interests and ego.

_________________

Son Éminence Adelène de Kermabon - Cardinal de Saint Nicomaque de l'Esquilin - Archevêque de Bordeaux
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Branwyn



Inscrit le: 29 Mar 2023
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Localisation: Rom, Palazzetto Alessandrini

MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 11, 2025 4:51 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Branwyn nodded thoughtfully, then answered calmly and matter-of-factly."I was appointed prefect and have the task of looking after the affairs of the orders. This also includes recognising an order.
It is true that you have previously spoken to the Cardinal and the Pope about this, but now I hold the office of Prefect and regardless of whether you are a Cardinal or not, the discussions regarding the recognition of a religious order take place over my desk and not behind my back!

At no time have I overstepped my rights or been disrespectful. I have passed on the instruction Cardinal Calixtus gave me after the two gentlemen decided without speaking to me. I was told, first the consecration and the registration, then the oaths!"

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Adelene
Cardinal
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MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 11, 2025 5:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Well, I'll tell you quite simply that I spoke to you for as long as I could, well aware that it's easier to talk to a prefect about a matter that concerns his assignment than to his superiors. But when I noticed that you were formally confirming statements that were contrary to the directives that came directly to me from the Holy Father, I had my doubts. That's when I approached Kalixtus. And his answer had the advantage of being clear too, and confirmed your error of judgement.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with being wrong. What is serious, however, is persisting in one's error and thus showing an inordinate and misplaced pride.

The fact that there is a prefect in a congregation in no way prevents a cardinal from addressing another cardinal or the Pope on a subject specific to that congregation. Especially when the good faith of the prefect of that congregation is called into question.

I didn't talk behind your back. I even made it very clear to you on several occasions that what you were telling me was strange and in contradiction with what the Pope and Kalixtus were telling me. So you were aware that I was talking to them in complete transparency. I even shared some of my words with you in the hope that this might help you to correct your mistakes. And I want you to know that for as long as necessary, I will continue to speak to Kalixtus and the Pope, because I consider your ban on this to be totally inappropriate. Because this is something you're going to have to admit, you don't have any orders, or bans, to impose on me. Apologies, at most.

I have the clear feeling that you haven't learnt anything from these exchanges and that you're continuing in the same direction. This behaviour continues to waste our precious time.


Turning to Kalixtus.

Dear brother, I'm terribly sorry, but I'm afraid it's impossible to talk to this person. She's convinced she's right, and she thinks she can not only give orders to a cardinal, but also twist the words of another cardinal, you, and make the Pope look like a liar, or a man in error, which in my eyes is a crime in both cases.

I welcome your intention and your hope of finding a solution. In fact, that's why I've come. But you must admit that this is not a good start, and that I feel just as insulted by her stubbornness as by the insolence she has shown over the last few weeks.

_________________

Son Éminence Adelène de Kermabon - Cardinal de Saint Nicomaque de l'Esquilin - Archevêque de Bordeaux
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Kalixtus
Cardinal
Cardinal


Inscrit le: 24 Fév 2013
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Localisation: Roma, Palazzo Doria-Pamphilj

MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 13, 2025 3:09 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus listened to the exchange with great attentiveness. He was a keen listener and had the ability to perceive things as they truly were. When it was his turn to speak, he raised his voice with an unmistakable and compelling choice of words.

    Brother—his gaze rested on Adelene—Sister—he looked at Branwyn—this is an unnecessary escalation of a conflict that diverts us from our sacred duty. The Church is not an arena for personal feuds but a house of order and humility.

    Cardinal Adelene, your right to speak with the Holy Father and with me is unquestioned and non-negotiable. However, there is an order in our offices, and the Prefect has been entrusted with overseeing the affairs of the religious orders. Her task is not to command cardinals, but to safeguard the institutions of the Church in their structure.

    Mother Branwyn, your duty is to carry out the responsibility entrusted to you with diligence and obedience. Yet, this obedience extends also to the guidance of the Church as a whole. Misunderstandings have arisen here, and these misunderstandings have left wounds. Part of this stems from my choice of words toward you, Cardinal Adelene, in the correspondence we exchanged. It was never my intention to dictate an unalterable procedure, but rather to provide guidance that was to be further developed with the Prefect, who is responsible for these matters. That it was understood otherwise, I regret.

    Another misunderstanding lies in the nature of the laws governing the foundation of religious orders. They are outdated and are regarded as gravely problematic both by the Holy Father and by me. The order to which we must adhere is, therefore, an agreement reached between His Holiness and myself—formed during a walk in the gardens of the papal palace.

    Branwyn is not acting out of personal ambition, but out of a desire to align the legal requirements with the will of the Pope.

    I hereby confirm: the consecration of the abbey and the taking of the vows are an inseparable unity. However, the consecration must formally take place before the vows become valid. This establishes the order of proceedings. Since everything is to be completed on the same day and I will personally be present, the process is under control. There is, therefore, no need for further conflict, Cardinal Adelene. Trust me, as I trust you—as a brother. I know that you seek to protect the integrity of the Church, but so does Branwyn. We fight on the same front.

    Let us not allow our weapons to turn against our own flesh.

    Regarding the personal grievances—I do not demand that you love one another, but I do expect you to treat each other with the dignity befitting your office. Mother Branwyn, you should consider an apology for the harshness of your words, just as I expect Cardinal Adelene to let go of his threats.

    I know that you are sharp of mind and eloquent in speech. But we are not among enemies here—we are among brothers and sisters.

    If you trust me, then meet each other on this path as clerics—without wounding one another. And you will see that, together, you can accomplish much.

    Do not let it all be undone because of what divides you. See, as I do, what unites you.

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Branwyn



Inscrit le: 29 Mar 2023
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 13, 2025 3:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Branwyn listened to the cardinal quietly and calmly. When he had finished, she nodded, looked at Cardinal Adelene and spoke calmly and kindly.

"Your Eminence, I would like to formally apologise to you. I realise that the Order is a matter close to your heart. I feel the same way about Heiligenbronn Abbey. In the heat of the moment, there were misunderstandings and as we don't know each other that well yet, it happened that we misunderstood each other. Obviously we have a similar temperament.

However, I hope that you will accept my sincere apologies and that we will work well, successfully and calmly together in the future."

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Adelene
Cardinal
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 13, 2025 7:22 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Raising the glass to his lips again, the Cardinal drank calmly before speaking.

I'm well aware of the extent to which the procedures that have been exhumed are obsolete, and I've been talking to the Pope for many months about the need to review these procedures. And at the risk of repeating myself, it was precisely because there were contradictions between the information I received from the Pope and that which I received from Branwyn that I took the liberty of writing to you, my brother, to shed light on the situation. In fact, it was at the Pope's request that I approached you.

There is no doubt that the procedures are unclear and that we all need to be flexible and patient in order to find the best solutions for the sake of the faith. And I think that in this respect the Gregorian members have shown a great deal of flexibility and adaptability. I would remind you that a ceremony had already taken place, where the members had taken their oaths a first time. This ceremony was therefore held a second time, in accordance with the new instructions. But what sense would a third ceremony make, on the pretext of a new clarification of the procedure that would take place after the ceremony?

I would therefore ask you to confirm, Kalixtus, that the ceremony held at Seclin Abbey, where the consecration and oath-taking took place, is indeed valid and that the abbey is now recognised as consecrated and the order as restored.

As for the apology, I accept it. But I expect them to be followed by deeds and not just words. For the threat was clear, to do everything possible to harm the Gregorian Order. There was nothing Aristotelian about such a threat, and I hope that the ugly anger that fuelled this hostility will not reappear. For my part, I made no such threat. That's not the way I do things, and it seems to me that threats are not the way to bring a virtuous and moral project to a successful conclusion.

After so many reversals of fortune, I would now like to be able to move forward and officially announce to the members of the Order where things stand. I have complete confidence in you Kalixtus. But I must confess that I have been waiting impatiently for over a year for the Gregorian Order to finally be recognised. What's more, I believe that if our late brother Boniface had investigated further, he might not have been so hasty in declaring the Order extinct...

So, brother Kalixtus, please be clear with me from now on. What is the current status of this matter, and can we finally consider the oaths and the consecration of the abbey to be effective? As long as this is not clear, we cannot devote ourselves to the service of the Most High within our abbey, and it is heartbreaking to be prevented from serving the Lord in this way.


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Son Éminence Adelène de Kermabon - Cardinal de Saint Nicomaque de l'Esquilin - Archevêque de Bordeaux
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Kalixtus
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 13, 2025 8:20 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

    Kalixtus smiled with satisfaction.

    Very good, then we have reached a consensus and can proceed.

    The documents should already be fixed, and the Order will be listed, and the abbey will also be included in the reopened directory.

    Everything will be as discussed. Your work can begin.

    As far as closing an order is concerned, this should really always be the last option. With closure, so much is lost that is important to the church in terms of tradition and lore. Bringing something back to life is very, very difficult and requires dedication and humility.

    I am very happy that your ongoing work with the Gregorians has made this possible.

    Now, alongside the Jesuits, we have another strong order that is committed to mysticism and will maintain its place in the world. I am looking forward to the multitude of projects. Do you already have any ideas?

    As I am founding the Academy of Science and intend to involve the religious orders, some of the botany and medicine courses will certainly be offered in Heiligenbronn. I would be delighted if the Gregorians would also get involved, and we could offer special courses there that deal with characteristics that represent the order, but not with theology. Can you think of anything?


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