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Apocas
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 27, 2006 10:23 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

#2 is simply a listing of What beliefs can be found in what books.
Citation:
1. l'Etre Divin est tout-puissant
The Holy Being is Almighty

• Timée - Platon - Grec
• la Physique d'Aristote
• De providentia - Sénèque - Latin
• De natura deorum - Cicéron - Latin

This is saying that if you read one of the above books your belief in 'The Holy Being is Almighty' will increase.

#3 is a list of the beliefs that oppose each other.
Citation:
* # l'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité
• the wise man must take part in the life of the City
# le bonheur est une forme de contemplation, que le sage doit s'efforcer d'atteindre
• happiness is a kind of meditation

This means that you cannot hold 'the wise man must take part in the life of the City' and 'happiness is a kind of meditation' stongly for a long period of time. Or to put it another way, if 'the wise man must take part in the life of the City' goes up, 'happiness is a kind of meditation' goes down.

As for the other questions: I'm not sure we will know it until someone tries reading those books and seeing what changes happen.

And yes if we don't have the knowledge, then someone from France could come here.
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Emunah



Inscrit le: 03 Mai 2006
Messages: 361

MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 27, 2006 12:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

yes I understood what #2 was saying - I had it wrong looking at #3 though - thought it was saying those were teh two options that meant teh same. and it was a list of opposing ideas Embarassed

But hey, thanks for working with me here on this. I know I can take some awful twists and turns at times Laughing


Slowly getting there
    Master of Latin: 29%
    Master of ancien Greek: 96%
    Master of English Language: 10%


    Some stuf on Aristoteles : 100 %
    The Good : 100 %
    Virtue : 50 %
    Temperance : 50 %
    Logique : 59 %
    Les sens de l'Etre : 59 %

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syounger
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 27, 2006 2:41 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Despite all the other concerns I have I'm really pleased you are working things out!
It’s above my level of understanding but I'm also intrigued and enjoy reading this thread!
To me what you are doing is apart of what the game should be about and why the Church way could be so interesting if it was fully coded and we could make the Church work to encourage more to join!
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Emunah



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 6:52 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Well, since the Greek class is all filled up, I am reading Timée. Let’s see what happens. Here is my info:
    Master of Latin: 29%
    Master of ancien Greek: 96%
    Master of English Language: 10%


    Some stuf on Aristoteles : 100 %
    The Good : 100 %
    Virtue : 50 %
    Temperance : 50 %
    Logique : 59 %
    Les sens de l'Etre : 59 %


Citation:
The transcendental menu
Your ideas:
It seems reasonable to you to say that the Holy Being is Almighty.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that sensible beauty is an image of Eternal Beauty that any Soul has already contemplated once.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that the wise man must take part in the life of the City.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that metaphysics is the study of first principles.

You say to yourself that maybe things are copies of the Ideas.

Ok here are my open random thoughts on this - Latan is probably right. We should learn "the Holy Being is Almighty" We will need to get a professor in here or one of us will have to go there. My thinking is that it would be better for them to come here -WHY?- because I believe we can get one of the new counties to give us full use of their rector. The new counties “should” not have as many L-3 players as the established ones do. I believe we could get one if not indeed two lessons per day in either Somerset or Worchester. Those from the House of Lords should have first dibs since they learn faster. Once they learn it the y can teach the rest of us

The problem I think I could foresee with one of us going to France to learn is that we may not get classes all the time. I know I am on a different time zone than over there and by the time I get up(like today) the classes can be filled and with a lot more people looking to fill other L-3 ‘ways’ it could mean you are over there for several months. That could be real costly for us. If they are here and we guarantee a full class (hopefully they will charge us only £10) then they will get £50/day teaching - that should cover any field(s) they would have back home and food to eat while they are here eh?
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invisible007
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 8:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Emunah a écrit:
Well, since the Greek class is all filled up, I am reading Timée. Let’s see what happens. Here is my info:


Reading " timée ", and supposing that you have 200 points of intelligence, you will have " You' re sure that the Holy Being is Almighty " after 1 reading.

Thus, you will be able to preach this idea.
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Emunah



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Messages: 361

MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 9:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

invisible007 a écrit:
Emunah a écrit:
Well, since the Greek class is all filled up, I am reading Timée. Let’s see what happens. Here is my info:


Reading " timée ", and supposing that you have 200 points of intelligence, you will have " You' re sure that the Holy Being is Almighty " after 1 reading.

Thus, you will be able to preach this idea.


Oh really? AWESOME!!! I am maxed out in everything that I can - one reason I don't ever go into the tavern Twisted Evil I have had to replace a total of 40SP because of that silliness - I feel that is a game flaw

That also takes to another question. I know that ...well,I am pretty gol darn sure that you need 200 IP to get teh 100% on Some stuf on Aristoteles. I notice someone had 66% so that tells me they have lower than 200%. Now I am left to wonder how they get the other 34% Classes? or is there a book or .... Confused


EDIT - checking this now, but SOmerset sounds like they do not have enough interested people. So we could most likely ask to use their rector.
Worcester University looks like itis rather active. we couldget one slot. I would go somerset for a month orbetter oflessons in the HoL
Wink
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invisible007
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 11:07 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I'll to try to answer some questions. I hope that there is no error

* I don't think there is a prerequired (in this case 200 IP) to obtain 100% in "Aristotle".
* In order to develop his ideas (transcending menu) only 1 possibility: read the good book and have some prerequired

* How to change our ideas? Here is an extract of a French forum. (http://rome.royaumesrenaissants.com/viewtopic.php?t=1121&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0):

La beaute / beauty
- La beauté sensible est une image de la Beauté éternelle que l'âme a toujours déjà contemplée => La Banquet - Platon - Greek Sussex / Cornwall / WILTSHIRE
- La beauté résulte de certaines proportions et de certaines mesures et rythmes harmonieux => Poétique - Aristote - Greek NO IN ENGLAND

La metaphysique
- La métaphysique est la science des causes premières (Metaphysics is the study of first principles). => Métaphysique ? - Aristote - Greek WILTSHIRE
- La métaphysique est la science de ce qui est, en tant qu'il est : de l'étant en tant qu'étant => Métaphysique G et Z - Aristote - Greek NO IN ENGLAND

Les choses/ Things
- L'essence des choses est dans les choses-mêmes, et leur donne forme => Métaphysique ? - Aristote - Greek, Physique - Aristote - Greek
- Les choses sont des copies des Idées (Things are copies of the Ideas). => Parmenide - Platon Greek NO IN ENGLAND

La sagesse / wisdom
- Le bonheur est une forme de contemplation, que le sage doit s'efforcer d'atteindre (Happiness is a kind of meditation). => Ethique X le vrai bonheur et Poétique - Aristote - Greek NO IN ENGLAND
- L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité (the wise man must take part in the life of the City). => La République" de Platon WILTSHIRE

Other
l'Etre Divin est tout-puissant => la Physique d'Aristote, De providentia - Sénèque - Latin WILTSHIRE , De natura deorum - Cicéron - Latin NO IN ENGLAND et Timée - Platon - Greek SUSSEX



On the same forum:

Sussex :
-L'Être Divin est tout-puissant (The Holy Being is Almighty). (Timée - Platon – Grec)
-L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité (the wise man must take part in the life of the City). (La République - Platon – Grec)

Wiltshire :
-La métaphysique est la science des causes premières (Metaphysics is the study of first principles). (Métaphysique A - Aristote – Grec)
-L'Être Divin est tout-puissant (The Holy Being is Almighty). (De providentia - Sénèque – Latin)
-La beauté sensible est une image de la beauté éternelle que l'âme a toujours déjà contemplée (Sensible beauty is an image of Eternal Beauty that any Soul has already contemplated once) ET les choses sont des copies des Idées (Things are copies of the Ideas). (La Banquet - Platon – Grec)
-L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité (the wise man must take part in the life of the City). (La République - Platon – Grec)

Cornwall :
-La métaphysique est la science des causes premières (Metaphysics is the study of first principles). (Métaphysique A - Aristote – Grec)
-La beauté sensible est une image de la beauté éternelle que l'âme a toujours déjà contemplée (Sensible beauty is an image of Eternal Beauty that any Soul has already contemplated once) ET les choses sont des copies des Idées (Things are copies of the Ideas). (La Banquet - Platon – Grec)
-L'Être Divin est tout-puissant (The Holy Being is Almighty). (Timée - Platon – Grec)
-L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité (-L'homme sage doit participer à la vie de la cité (the wise man must take part in the life of the City). (La République - Platon – Grec)). (La République - Platon – Grec)


Don't forget that all the ideas (except The Holy Being is Almighty) have their opposite.
Thus it is necessary to read THE good book.
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invisible007
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 11:14 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The more we possess skills (100 %) in Theology (Aristotle, Logique, The Beginning of the World, Sense of Being), the more the sermons will be effective (the more we win point of divine thruth (pvd in french)).
The PVD seems to be necessary to progress in the virtues (good, friendship, justice, temperance ....).
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invisible007
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 28, 2006 11:28 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Emunah a écrit:
EDIT - checking this now, but SOmerset sounds like they do not have enough interested people. So we could most likely ask to use their rector.
Worcester University looks like itis rather active. we couldget one slot. I would go somerset for a month orbetter oflessons in the HoL
Wink


In Worcester we are not numerous in the way of the church, but we are all involved in our mission.
My apologies, but I didn't understand, you say that Somerset is not interested and thus you want going over there ? In what purpose? To convert them?Very Happy

What is "HoL " ??D

Somebody say that the idea " " doesn't yield many PVD.
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Apocas
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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 12:52 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Citation:
-L'Être Divin est tout-puissant (The Holy Being is Almighty). (De providentia - Sénèque – Latin)


Seems I'm going to have too learn quickly latin as well as greek. Rolling Eyes Wink

And HoL is 'House of Lords' a place for RP nobles.
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Emunah



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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 5:37 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

HoL is House of Lords but it is IG that I am referring too. You pay to get this option. It will increase your % to learn things in the university. It has other IG benefits too, but for this here, I am only using it as a reference for learning. If a player is in the HoL and taking classes from a French professor, he will learn the lesson faster. Then he can teach others. See what I mean?

Somerset = no, what I am saying is this: Somerset university has very little L-3 players attending classes. In the last post, one person said that he had only one student. So, my point is this, If they have no one attending and therefore no one teaching classes, we can have a professor from France come here and teach us what we do not have - get it now?
IOW's the university is not having any classes due to poor attendance. We set it up to 'borrow' the rector for our professor to teach XX days straight. or we may be able to get 2 professors if 10 people from the CW would agree to be there while the professors are here

Citation:
* I don't think there is a prerequired (in this case 200 IP) to obtain 100% in "Aristotle".

hmmm, I could be wrong on that but I would have sworn I read something to that nature. If I recall it correctly, it said that if you had XXX(200, maybe it was less Confused ) or above, when you applied for your L-3 CW, then you would get 100% in the “Some stuf on Aristoteles” automatically

All right, let me say this another way. If I were to go to France and learn Parménide / Parmenides or or Metaphysics E,G and Z or The Nicomachean Ethics I, II, III, IV, V, and VIII, what would happen?

    1.) Would it matter if I learned Metaphysics E,G and Z? Or would that just be a waste of time?

    2.) What ideas do the books....
    Nicomachean Ethics I - Le bien et le bonheur / The Study of the Good
    Nicomachean Ethics II - La vertu / The Virtue
    Nicomachean Ethics III - Le courage et la tempérance / Courage and Temperance
    Nicomachean Ethics IV - Les différentes vertus / The Other Virtues
    Nicomachean Ethics V - La justice / Justice
    Nicomachean Ethics VIII - L'amitié / Friendship
    ....give you?


    3.) What ideas does Parménide / Parmenides give you if you read it?

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Emunah



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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 10:19 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Master of Latin: 29%
Master of ancien Greek: 96%
Master of English Language: 10%


Some stuf on Aristoteles : 100 %
The Good : 100 %
Virtue : 50 %
Temperance : 50 %
Logique : 59 %
Les sens de l'Etre : 59 %



You're sure that the Holy Being is Almighty.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that sensible beauty is an image of Eternal Beauty that any Soul has already contemplated once.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that the wise man must take part in the life of the City.

It doesn't seem insane to you to pretend that metaphysics is the study of first principles.

You say to yourself that maybe things are copies of the Ideas.
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Apocas
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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 10:40 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Citation:
You're sure that the Holy Being is Almighty.


nice Cool

Have you tried to preach it yet?
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invisible007
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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 12:18 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Ok for the definition of HoL. I'm a Lord in the game, but i didn't know this abbreviation.

I'm french, so my apologies if I don't understand all your messages.

Citation:
If I recall it correctly, it said that if you had XXX(200, maybe it was less Confused ) or above, when you applied for your L-3 CW, then you would get 100% in the “Some stuf on Aristoteles” automatically

The IP and studies seems to be independant. 200 IP are necessary only for having "You're sure that" for an idea.
Only 1 reading is necessary to have an idea obvious, distinct (100% in an idea). It's not true for the skills.

Citation:

2.) What ideas do the books....
Nicomachean Ethics I - Le bien et le bonheur / The Study of the Good
Nicomachean Ethics II - La vertu / The Virtue
Nicomachean Ethics III - Le courage et la tempérance / Courage and Temperance
Nicomachean Ethics IV - Les différentes vertus / The Other Virtues
Nicomachean Ethics V - La justice / Justice
Nicomachean Ethics VIII - L'amitié / Friendship


No! These books permit to learn "moral", and doesn't bring anything to your ideas. Their learning (good, virtue, temperance, ...) is complex, and depends maybe on your points of divine truth ??
Without the prerequired necessary, impossible to exceed 50%, except if you had this skill at the time of your passage at level 3.


Citation:
3.) What ideas does Parménide / Parmenides give you if you read it?


You'll progress in "Things are copies of the Ideas". This book isn't available in England.

I hope I didn't talk nonsense.
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Emunah



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MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 29, 2006 7:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

007, This is great!!! I may ask some real bone head questions or just plain be to stubborn to understand it at times, But I am determined to get the info in place for those that are starting up. So this is absolutely wonderful - I thank you!! Wink

Ok, I will have to read, think, reread, think some more ...morals eh? I need more info on this complex beast. We need to shoot one and dissect it in our laboratory

EDIT - I have not tried preaching yet. I had a request for womans hose and I want to finish off my Greek. There ended up being no classes so I worked in my shop. I then went to see if I could preach but if you choose that option, that is your activity for teh day. I figure it is not working anyway an da waste of a day. Right? Confused
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