L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Adonnis]

Brothers,

Recently, a Portuguese Father who is studying with me at the Pontifical University asked me about the minimum age for ordination.

Being a Cardinal, I know that the Sacred College has already discussed this issue in 1467 and established that the age of majority occurs at 14, the minimum age for ordination. But I was able to give him the correct information because I am aware that we have discussed and established this.

However, to this day the Sacred College has not published any communiqué making this decision official.

An analysis of the Canon Law pertaining to Ordination is under consideration in the College of Legists. However, in the absence of Cardinal Felipe, the discussion has been paralyzed since September of last year. At that discussion, Cardinal Kalixtus suggested including the age issue among the other changes that the College would present to the Curia.

My question is whether we should wait for the College of Legists to conclude this discussion or whether it is better to approve a Pontifical Indult or simply publish a Bull communicating this decision so that the Aristotelian Community can be aware of it.

What do you think?

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.........Cardinal-Bishop of Saint Valentine of the Victories / Archichancellor of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
.............Governor of Latium / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real and Ostia / Duke of Monte Real

[Kalixtus]

We need to establish it and not wait for the legists.

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[Sixtus]

The age of majority is a requirement not just for ordination but also for marriage, a part of canon law that is still under revision just like the ordination, the taking of vows of conventuals and oblates, the assuming of management of a minor's fief and arguably the capacity to obtain an office or stand trial.
Before codifying a minimum age we should also keep in mind the impact it will have and that many kingdoms have established an age of their own which we should try to keep as harmonious as possible.
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Eskerrik asko Iñési sinaduragatik

[Kalixtus]

The German Kingdom and the Empire already fully followed my recommendation of 14 years. I don't know how it is in the other kingdoms.

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[heldor]

So, Holy Father and Most Eminent Brothers, it is: at what age does the Church establish the age at which one is capable of making decisions on one's own behalf? Right? Because, just in case, I agree with those who have expressed themselves before me in saying that a good age could be 14 years old.
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+S.Ecc.Ill.ma frà Tebaldo Foscari detto Heldor il randello
Cardinale Vescovo Emerito di San Domenico in Burgos
Primate delle Venezie e Stato da Mar
Legato Apostolico per le Venezie e Stato da Mar
Patriarca Metropolita di Venezia
Arcivescovo Sine Cura di Gorizia
Padre Generale dell'Ordine di San Domenico,
Conte di Sezze
ecc.

[Fenice]

I think that 14 is a good age. And I think we can take our decision, to fulfill a void.
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[Pie de Valence]

FR : Historiquement, en France, la majorité civile est à 30 ans pour un garçon, 25 ans pour une fille. Un garçon de moins de 30 ans et une fille de moins de 25 ans sont réputés mineurs et doivent avoir l'autorisation de leurs parents pour se marier.

IT : Storicamente, in Francia, la maggiore età civile è di 30 anni per un ragazzo, 25 per una ragazza. Un ragazzo sotto i 30 anni e una ragazza sotto i 25 anni sono considerati minorenni e devono avere l'autorizzazione dei genitori per sposarsi.

ANG : Historically, in France, the age of civil majority is 30 for a boy, 25 for a girl. A boy under 30 and a girl under 25 are considered minors and must have their parents' authorization to marry.


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"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[pamelita]

Also in my opinion 14 years is the minimum necessary to be ordained and to get married.
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[Kalixtus]

[Pie de Valence]

I don't know who is Napoleon nor what is the french Revolution.

Roman Empire :

- matrimonial majority : both at 25 years
- civil majority : both 25 years
' right to be married : 12 years for a girl, 14 years for a boy.


25 years is a good age to avoid abuse and nepotism.
_________________
"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Kalixtus]

Stop writing bullshit Pie - that crap will not work and we aren't here to debate this shit again.

We all had this debate 1467 and we agreed on the subject of 14 years - end of debate.

Out of not very useful ideas there came up the point to let the legist write a law as if we aren't able to write an announcement and a law for the CIC.

Anyway. If I see it correctly we just don't need to redebate the substance of that we has to make the announcement and the law.

Lets move on with that so I can forget the useless propasal of Cardinal Pie about 25 years to become an adult. You can be fucking married with 12 but are adult with 25 out of what cave did you come out to write such bullshit and think anybody will like that and say - oh what a brillant idea Pie - we all were so stupid that we never thought about it.

And by the way - it would create the biggest mess around the continent if we would change such stuff and nobody will take church serious anymore if you declare people not adult till they are fucking 25 years, cause than we have a lot of rulers and kings and emperors who are not adult and how can someone be not adult but parent of 5 children.

What is going wrong in your head.

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[Sixtus]

Cardinal Kalixtus, we once again admonish you to speak politely and with respect to your brothers and sisters, even in front of a difference of views or the most blatant nonsense.
For everyone's information, the Codex Levan sets the age of majority to 14 years for both males and females of noble birth in France, no legislation exists for commoners.

[Pie de Valence]

[Kalixtus]

Kalixtus rolled his eyes. He had allowed himself to be provoked. But there was this issue now that he can't stand bullshit. It's like a cancer and Kali always reacts aggressively to stupid and unobjective suggestions.

He waved and nodded to the pope he was right with the rebuke but at least he had made a decision that made Kalixtus purr inwardly.

Yes, thank God the Pope realized how ridiculous your proposal was. The cardinal could not deny himself this comment.

The question remains whether we embed this in the CIC. I suggest the preamble, since it is a universal statement.

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[Adonnis]

Here is the draft of the Indult for consideration.

Do we have consensus?



Citation:

........ Pontifical Indult XXVIII About the age required for receiving the sacrament of Baptism. To the Faithfuls, Clerics and Prelats of the Aristotelian Community, The Sacred College of the Cardinals, empowered to modify the Canon Law, in accordance with Article 1 and Article 1.3 of Part IV of the Book De Ecclesiae Dei fundis, having already established in the past that both men and women reach the age of majority at the age of fourteen, decided to promote the modification, by means of an Indult, of article 3 of Part I and the Material Cause of Part IV of the Book Ad mundi salutem per sanctificationem, establishing the age of 14 (fourteen) as the initial mark of the age of majority required to receive the Sacrament of Baptism, without the need for future confirmation, and to receive the Sacrament of Ordination. Therefore, We, the Cardinals of the Holy Aristotelian, Universal and Roman Church, reunited in our Sacred College, in the name of His Holiness Sixtus IV, Sovereign Pontiff and Pope of the Universal Church, under the blessings of God and the watchful eye of the Prophets, have ruled and proclaimed, and by our present perpetual and definitive indult, declare, rule and proclaim the following Canons, regarding the age required for receiving the sacrament of Baptism: Citation: **♢ Original Canon ♢ Part I: The Sacrament of Baptism (...) Article 3: Only a believer who understands and assimilates the basic credo may receive the sacrament of baptism (not applicable to Can. 1-I-A-5). **♢ Modified Canon ♢ Part I: The Sacrament of Baptism (...) Article 3: Only a believer, with an age of 14 years or more, who understands and assimilates the basic credo may receive the sacrament of baptism (not applicable to Can. 1-I-A-5). Citation: **♢ Original Canon ♢ Part IV: The Sacrament of Ordination, or Elevation to the Priesthood The material cause = all faithful who want to serve the Church and God above all. **♢ Modified Canon ♢ Part IV: The Sacrament of Ordination, or Elevation to the Priesthood The material cause = all faithful, with an age of 14 years or more, who want to serve the Church and God above all. Given in Rome, on the sixteenth day of February in the Year of Grace MCDLXXI By the Sacred College of the Cardinals, His Eminence Adonnis Ferreira de Queirós Silva e Sagres Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalis Vicedecanus

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.........Cardinal-Bishop of Saint Valentine of the Victories / Archichancellor of the Holy See / General Inquisitor of Portugal
.............Governor of Latium / Metropolitan Archbishop of Braga / Bishop of Vila Real and Ostia / Duke of Monte Real