L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Francesco_maria]

"Cardinal Kalixstus, your position is clear but I cannot accept that you insult the Sacred College like this. That the Empire is a "evil" state was demonstrated by them, not by us, with continuous policies aimed at undermining relations between the Empire and the Church.

These criminals who attacked the dioceses (and not only) roam freely in the territory of the Empire and it is the duty of a kingdom to guarantee the safety of its citizens and their property. The insults and attacks on the Holy Aristotelian Church by these bandits are a complete provocation and I am convinced that a military mobilization to try to stem the problem on our part is superfluous. May the Empire take care of its cities. For our part, we are taking all the necessary measures.

Allow me also to tell you that you should stop with these excesses of personalism both in defending yourself and in attacking other. The task of the Apostolic Chamber is to monitor the state of the coffers. Card. Tymothe said he has done so and made sure those at risk are safe. He is charged with doing this and this he has done.

The card. Fenice did not take any diplomatic action because it was not given the go-ahead to do so because we were still evaluating what action to take. The discussion so far has only been in the realm of hypotheses. So on his part she participated in the discussion as her right and duty.

Regarding the card. Cesare.Alexandre no one has condemned or criticized him for what he does. However, he is also prohibited from carrying weapons so it is not clear to me where he is going with this armed group of his and to whom he answers.

Finally, as I already said in my speech during the election of the new Dean, your position in the Empire is suspect to say the least. It's not an accusation, it's an observation. The entire Curia (including the Pope) are in imperial BL except you who thought well of getting out of a decision of the Holy Church to save your face with them not to maintain dialogue, because dialogue has never even been.

All this to say that certainly each of us has faults but everyone's interest MUST, and I repeat, MUST be for the good of the entire Holy Church always. There is no one better than others, the protagonisms, as we have seen in the past, are always and only failures."
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[Tymothé de Nivellus]

I respond to all the Holy Father's requests. If you have something to reproach my congregation for, we can talk. Or you can complain to the Pope. If you have complaints about my day-to-day work, I can also hear them at a meeting. Although I depend mainly on the Pope, I am as faithful as possible to him and to the Church. Which is not the case for everyone.
I have my faults and I accept them. I strive to be better every day. It's also because I don't pretend to believe myself superior, gifted with an infallible science... That's what allows me to constantly question myself and move forward along what I hope is the right path.

Kalixtus, you're a traitor because you take information from the sacred college... everyone knows that. You spared yourself by making it clear who approved the Emperor's excommunication. That's why you're not on this list. Because you sell your arse directly to the emperor and desecrate your habit yourself. It's not a problem if you're not on that blacklisted rag. The problem is how you managed not to get on the bloody list. Because you have very little morals or respect for any of us here. There's not a moment when you'll question yourself and show loyalty to all religious institutions. Because you think you're the cleverest of us all.
Several members have been denouncing it for years, and every time, you find a way to destroy them because destroying is what you do best. How many have left because of you? Because you directly attack people's integrity...
If you'd gone before them, there'd certainly be more of us today... You're polluting the debates with your constant attacks, your aggressiveness and your manipulative manoeuvres by playing the victim. As soon as someone says something to you, you go a rage ans insult we...

I've also been proposing for years that we create granaries for the holy armies. We should have armies that can be mobilised quickly. Men and women who are fiercely loyal to the church. Only some of these people are like you kalixtus, they think of themselves before the church and favour their title, land and bend the knee to an emperor or a king... Individualism takes precedence over the true values of the Faith that you are supposed to spread.
It is not in this intervention that you will have the revelation. But if you could be in a monastery for a few years to reflect and meditate on the thorn that you are for the Church.
Your work has been destroyed on a daily basis by your shitty behaviour for a long time now. You're no longer seen as a man of the field and a hard worker, but as an asshole who's a pain in the ass and disrespectful... An egotist with a great imagination when it comes to manipulating people.
All the little young you manipulate into being your pawns. You don't even know what a real friendship is, people are either with you all the way or against you, you can't stand anyone contradicting you. And when they really understand who you are, they rebel and turn their back on you... Your classic, repetitive shema. Shema of constant repetition.

There is no other solution but to try to work together for the good of our holy mother the church. If only you could understand that... If only you thought as much about working for the church as you did about your own navel, then you could be a great man. There I see another guy for whom I have little regard... I've already tendered my resignation because of you. The arrival of one of your pawns disturbs me. But it's not impossible that he'll follow your classic shema and become emancipated... As others have done.

Now, either we do the cushioning or we get moving. But you have to stop looking for fault where none exists.
Who is proposing something concrete? I've personally prepared two attics. I can still do more. Can our holy armies mobilise again? We also have the finances to pay salaries, whatever it takes. But we have to do it! And to do it properly, we need to get our militiamen to set up barracks in strategic locations. We can finance their relocation... Everything is possible, but you have to want it and propose concrete things.

I'm not an expert on war, but I do know that we have the finances. It's essential to put things in place. Even if it's not for this time.
If you want peace, prepare for war. Let's get ourselves in shape to protect our dioceses, towns and duchies.
The more we show our strength and power. The more credible we will be and the more people we will have on our side.
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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – If I may say so, mobilising the Holy Armies seems to me to be the most appropriate action to take, which is what I have been suggesting since the beginning of this affair. Especially as the Swiss armies now number around 90 soldiers, and have partially defeated General White de Talliaz's army at the gates of Pontarlier. His army is still standing and he should get it back into fighting shape quickly, but all the same, the situation is not very comfortable at the moment.

Any military support would be welcome, in particular to be able to launch a counter-offensive from Savoy towards Geneva, for example, in coordination with the imperial armies, so as to distract the Genevan armies but also, and above all, to put an end to the existence of this barbaric heretical republic. Delenda Geneva est ! »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Kalixtus]

What you still don't understand today, Tymothe, is that all your insults and accusations, as well as conspiracy theories, are understood as compliments in my world.

You can't preach that we all need to work together and cry out for harmony and woke rainbows and that we all are singing together the song of unity while simultaneously uttering all those malicious absurdities against me, thus contradicting yourself, and choosing precisely the methods as "attacks" that you supposedly despise in me, adopting them in a desperate hope that your empty threats, which you call personal attacks, will somehow affect me.

The fact that you've come out of your chamber and written a heartfelt monologue about how terrible I am shows me that there must be some truth to the saying "hit dogs holler." Thank you for the excellent demonstration.

I make no secret of it, neither here nor to you or the Pope, that I consider your congregation extremely superfluous, and your work is not important for the well-being of the Church, the faithfuls, and certainly not for the faith. On the contrary, I find it harmful, and the accumulation of wealth is a very critical point for the CDF. There are already KAP articles that criticize this sufficiently. Using this wealth for war purposes will certainly be very helpful in appeasing the critical voices. I’m sure you won't necessarily silence them if you also call them "traitor" or "asshole" as you named me.

The fact that the Holy Father sees it differently actually keeps you in office, Tymothe. What luck for you. Luck that my opinion is just an opinion and my word is just advice because, despite all the alleged power of manipulation and influence attributed to me, I don't seem to control the Pope; otherwise, you would long be the Cardinal of Alexandria, and your task would be to count the grains of sand in the Sahara.

For everything else, I will gladly send you a tinfoil hat and a signed copy of my biography. I’ll also gladly send it to other interested cardinals so that you can all finally learn how I managed not to end up on a blacklist while you all did. I thought other achievements of mine were more far-reaching, but it seems to be of utmost interest to you how I manage to destroy heresies and govern states and, above all, not to fall victim to a state – as apparently many here feel while picnicking on the blacklist instead of solving their sad situation.

A little tip: I haven't sold all your souls for my achievement, even though the thought might have been tempting for a second. However, I wouldn’t even know where to start looking for that. Just kidding – I’m just joking. Unlike Tymothe, I am an exceedingly humorous person, with surprisingly many friends and surprisingly many successful projects. Irritating, I know.

I can only support the words of Cardinal Cesar. You should listen to him, he has the insight and is willing to share it with you.

Final sentence to your sermon, Francesco – if everything we do is supposed to serve the entire Church, how do Tymothe's words fit into this causal context?

And… much more importantly. Shouldn't it rather be: "Everything we do must serve the faith," since the Church is a deeply human and thus imperfect construct? Think about that and then think about whether I am always the perpetrator here, or whether some other cardinals don’t use much worse, cruder, and thereby more primitive language, causing far more dramatic damage to the Holy Mother Church. For example, by destroying the relationships that the Pope has so carefully built in France through foolish and ignorant behavior. Where ceremonies and sacraments became invalid, and whole years of Rome's political influence on the powerful politicians in France slipped and could only be healed with effort and the influence of other cardinals - for example... me. Oopsie, I know that was egocentric - but sadly true.

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[Francesco_maria]

"Without ending up getting bogged down as usual in these arguments and returning to the main question, even if this Sacred College decided for the mobilization what timeframes would be needed? Among the few cardinal bishops we have the Cardinal Constable and it would be appreciated if he were more involved in this discussion.

We can establish that the coffers are safe and that the Church's funds allow us to mobilize. But who do we mobilize and with what timing? If card. Cathelineau is kind enough to intervene and clarify these aspects we can make some progress."
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[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – To my knowledge, we have around twenty milites in Savoie, more precisely in Annecy. Some of them are nobles, so they've already been mobilised, but I don't know if all the milites have been mobilised. The military-religious orders in Savoie have an agreement with the Duchy, which stipulates that the Duchy can normally mobilise all the soldiers of these orders in the event of war.

Provence, just a few days' ride from Savoy, is also home to a number of pontifical nobles who could easily be mobilised to reinforce the troops there.

Incidentally, I don't know where the other nobles and possible militiamen of the other military-religious orders are, and I think that the Cardinal Connétable will be better placed than I to answer this question. If we still have archives of the mobilisation against Anjou, we could find out how many soldiers could be mobilised in France alone, and how quickly.

From a financial point of view, we have ample resources to finance a mobilisation. The archdiocese of Lyon, which includes parishes in Franche-Comté and Savoie, has plenty of money, as does the archdiocese of Arles, which is easily accessible by land or river. Buying large quantities of bread and corn should not be a problem in the region, which is fairly populous and prosperous, in order to feed our troops.

But one point remains unresolved: what is the Church's objective in this matter? To be a simple auxiliary of the Empire, and secondarily of France, by mobilising troops and leaving them at the disposal of the imperial staff to destroy enemy armies? That's a good start, but it wouldn't be quite worthy of the rank of our Most Holy Church.

Nevertheless, taking part in the fighting and the defeat of enemy armies remains essential.

Nevertheless, we have the opportunity to play our card in this affair. Discretely, but effectively. Franche-Comté is under attack, and the Empire will not let it happen, because part of the Imperial Council, starting with the Empress, is from the Comtois region. Unlike previous emperors who refused any attack on Geneva, and I almost paid the price personally because certain imperial ministers wanted my head and wanted to accuse me of high treason towards the Empire when, last year, I tried to conquer Geneva.

Now that the Empire seems far less hostile to military action against Geneva, which has supplied its armies, welcomed its soldiers, etc., and the city no longer has to contain many defenders, this could also be the ideal opportunity to seize it and drive the heretics out. But it will take men to move.

History proves it: a long-term occupation weakens Geneva permanently, and many brigands prefer to leave to commit their misdeeds further afield. If we hold out long enough, and install enough volunteers, we can break Geneva for good. Remember: during the Great Crusade of the early 60s, at the instigation of Cardinal-Archbishop Aristokoles, the King of Lotharingia and Starkel, several months of occupation virtually destroyed Geneva, which took several years to recover from.

In my view, we must seize the opportunity to defeat a hereditary enemy for good. To tell you the truth, I would have dreamt of it when I was Duke of Savoy, because it was the way to finally bring down this permanent threat to Aristotle and the Duchy.

Let's not delude ourselves, the heretics will go elsewhere and build other strongholds. But they will be divided, reduced and easier to fight locally. »

Quick pause to mark a change of subject.

« – Finally, and more concretely, a new battle is due to take place this evening, this time between the armies of Geneva and the Ne Craint Que Dieu army, in the middle of the Swiss countryside.

From the feedback I've had, Talliaz's White army was narrowly defeated - two or three soldiers short of a draw. The Ne Craint Que Dieu army is more powerful than White de Talliaz's, and with a bit of luck we'll win over the heretics. The knights of this army rely on the prayers of the whole Church. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Adelene]

I am perhaps not the best person to say what should be done and what should not be done. However, as a former Primate of France and a member of the Royal House of France, I am available to help with relations with France, based on my network. Don't hesitate to include me in discussion if you think I can help.

As far as the current situation is concerned, we need to look at what happened a few months ago, with the same protagonists. We imagined sending in the Holy Armies, but by the time we said that and prepared for it, the thugs were already a long way away.

In my opinion, a localised alliance is the only viable solution, by sending all our local forces, as well as financial aid and food supplies. That's what we did this winter with the Lyonnais, when the Helvetii attacked our dioceses. But establishing this kind of alliance over time seems complex to me, because, as we know, provincial councils come and go quickly and sometimes deny themselves.

Of course it would be important to obtain a framework agreement for military cooperation, but without losing sight of the fact that this agreement could easily fall through.

I would also add that I believe it is vital to strengthen our local and border clergy. That's why, when I was Primate, I encouraged my clergy to occupy the archdioceses of Embrun, Arles and Lyon, as well as the diocese of Embrun, bearing in mind that Vienne, Montelimar and Dié are already well occupied. We must be able to count on these clerics to ensure perfect local cooperation. They are Rome's voice, hand, ears and eyes on the ground. Leaving a diocese vacant in this region is madness. What's more, some of these dioceses are bridges between the Kingdom and the Empire. And at the moment, and in view of the exchanges that have just taken place, it seems to me that increasing the number of Roman bridges between France and the Holy Roman Empire is a blessing.


As for condemnation, obviously that seems to be the first thing to do, as has been said.

Our Cardinal Cathelineau will know best what local forces can be mobilised within a few days.


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Son Éminence Adelène de Kermabon - Cardinal de Saint Nicomaque de l'Esquilin - Archevêque de Bordeaux

[Fenice]

Brothers, I hear you speak and frankly I am very surprised.
Your speeches are exactly those of politicians and professional soldiers, whereas here we are in the Curia and we are Cardinals, that is, men and women of the Church.

We do not pursue vendettas or aims of political control; I have even heard Starkel mentioned, forgetting, however, that Starkel had enormous sums of money and spent them to hire people for his aims of power.
However much money we may have, we must not use it to turn ourselves into a bad copy of the Empire or the Kingdom of France.

I agree with the need to cover the dioceses, but our goal must be pastoral care and the spread of Aristotelianism, not political and military control.
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[Francesco_maria]

"Mother Fenice you are right, but the problem here is not pastoral or linked to the spread of Aristotelianism or rather not primarily.

Regarding previous interventions, I reiterate that everyone has the right to intervene and express their opinion. Every cardinal who sits in this Sacred College can and must intervene in the discussions!

However, plans and roles should not be confused. it is true that these bandits and heretics attacked a diocese to steal the coffers but this is a problem of internal order of the Empire which, incapable of managing its territories, has also damaged us. We don't have to prove to the Empire or France that we are strong and good, they are the ones who have to prove to their people that they know how to defend them. If these bandits in such high numbers are free to roam the provinces and attack wherever they want, it is a significant public order problem that would make me ashamed in their place.

Taking up what Mother Fenice said, and which I partially agree with, our interest must be that of the good of the Holy Church, not helping the Empire or any other Province which, according to what I understand, has not shown any solidarity towards of the Church for the attack suffered. I don't expect a letter to the Pope but at least at a local level a letter to the Bishop or Primate.

Without a doubt I am a supporter of dialogue and certainly building good relationships is always useful but we must always be careful not to end up serving some political purpose that is alien to us."
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[Cesar.Alexandre]

« – My sister, Eminence Fenice, look at your crozier : its strength supports the weak, its curve catches those who stray, its point strikes down the wolves that attack our sheep. And our sheep is under attack.

To protect his enclosure, the shepherd sometimes needs to arm himself and make sure that no wolf comes out from the edge of the forest to attack his herd. Or even to push back the forest. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Kalixtus]

What I find more stressful than the fact that the empire doesn't send love letters to the church is the unpleasant truth that such groups should actually be monitored, and the borders better protected by the state than it obviously is.

Let me put it bluntly:

If the state cannot protect the dioceses, we must consider how we can do it by ourselves.

And be it the way, that we take on the necessary work of monitoring the diocesan borders and create a network that, like an intelligence service, provides information about our enemies and their movements to the Holy Armies and the Curia.

I fully understand the problem that the Church should not submit to the interests of the state. But I see it similarly to Cesar. Our task is also to protect the sheep that are entrusted to us. That sometimes includes the members of the state, even some are not the best of the best faithfuls.

So if we do not have a significant and permanent military presence (for various political, social and organizational reasons), then we need to think about other protective measures that cost fewer resources and provide an efficient early warning system.

In addition, we urgently need to find permanent and efficient solutions for the staffing of dioceses with administrators, diocesan vicars and bishops.

This requires a strategy in co-operation with the primates. The bishops and the local clergy have an obligation here.

It is therefore a task for the whole Church with a whole series of subsequent projects that would be necessary to solve this dilemma efficiently and in the long term.

1. communication with the state
2. independence from the state
3. the security policy of Rome for the dioceses
4. a Roman intelligence service
5. the pastoral and administrative care of the dioceses

That would be the action plan we could have in mind.

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[Francesco_maria]

"These are all excellent ideas, Cardinal Kalixstus, except that the order is completely backwards and shows how your way of thinking, and that of many others in this Sacred College, is purely political. I don't want to declare myself the one who knows what is right and what is wrong but my life and my education have always been oriented towards doing everything possible for the spread of the True Faith and the good of the Holy Aristotelian Church. If your priority list were backwards things would be much easier:

[Kalixtus]

Cardinal Francesco - that was a list of things we need to do, not a ranking of priorities. I know it fits very well into your beloved narrative of the evil, political, anti-church Cardinal Kalixtus. But you need to free yourself from your prejudices, as many others also should.

I find it somewhat irritating that you replace an overarching term with a subordinate one. "Dialogue" IS communication. Somehow, I feel that you want to create a line of confrontation that is as unnecessary as it is obstructive and contradicts your original stance like: we must talk to everyone.

Priests are not trained agents of an intelligence service. They are undoubtedly observers, but we should make it clear that they are not automatic members of the Holy Armies.
Moreover, a fully-fledged espionage system to protect the dioceses cannot originate from the cities, but usually takes place at nodes outside and in hostile terrain. So it's not a particularly well-thought-out idea to use clerics for this, who we already desperately need in the cities as priests.
I advocate for a clear and unequivocal position within the Holy Armies, not a superficial position among the clergy, which would significantly restrict and hinder trust in their pastoral work among the faithfuls.
Such a network does not require authorization from the state and provides reliable information to the Holy Armies about movements along our diocesan borders and the territories of heretical lands. In this way, we would be much more efficient and coordinated and could organize the security policy of the dioceses much more constructively, quickly and reliably.
In addition, we would be independent of the state and its aid, because it would no longer be relevant whether they stop the enemy armies on their territory because we are prepared.

I find it irritating that people believe they can live in a world where politics and the church are separate. I am talking about independence from the state, which means:

Independence in information policy
Independence in finances
Independence in the economy
Independence in tax policy
Independence in military development
etc.

There will be no independence from political processes. Only naive fools will believe that we can achieve the independence of Rome from the political arena. On the contrary, it is, as described in the ideal city in the dogma, our obligation to actively and strongly participate in political decision-making processes.

The reduction of political activity, Brother Francesco, is the problem of this church. The withdrawal from the processes of pastoral care and politics has led to a lack of presence among the people, and because of this lack of presence, this church is crumbling.

Of course, political work must focus on a multitude of interests.

Rome also has its own political goals and implements them efficiently in all parts of the world. Therefore, it is utopian to believe that we can withdraw from political decision-making processes with the childish idea that we are clerics and focus on pastoral care only and exclusively.

If a blacksmith does not receive ore, he can close his forge. However, ore mining is subject to political decisions. Therefore, it is reasonable, even essential for survival, for the blacksmith to participate in the political decision-making process to fulfill his business and work for society.
This can be applied to the church. A church that does not participate in these processes leaves this important field to heresies and anti-clerical forces that aim to destroy us all. (This is happening now)

The church now has two options:

It leaves its fate in God's hands and does nothing (this has been the usual practice so far and doesn't follow the idea named by Christos what Church is about and how it works)
It takes responsibility, as suggested in the dogma (cf. Aristotle's Dream, Aristotle's Speeches, and Aristotle's Ideas on the Sword) and uses its influence for the good of the church and the faithful, to ensure the spread of faith. This includes politics.



The Life of Aristotle, Book I - Dialogues, Chapter XI a écrit:

The third class of citizens is that of the philosopher kings, the golden class. These are the oldest people, recruited from among the guards who demonstrated the most bravery, the best commanders, and the most gifted philosophers. Their only good is reason, because they are freed of their earthly possessions. Their faith in God is their only weapon. They are famous for their most perfect practice of the virtues. They are an example for everyone, and the people are happy to sacrifice a portion of their property to assure the survival of these masters. The philosopher kings constitute the government of the city. They determine its fate in an assembly. They are also the ministers of religion restored to the Almighty, and there resides their legitimacy. In their positions of power, the Almighty advises them. They keep their power as advised by the Almighty, sharing their condition with the priests. They organize the whole city, plan production, return justice, and legislate." Sargas: "By my faith, that's a formidable city that you've described to me." Aristotle: "Certainly, that's true. And I have a personal belief that it must exist, somewhere."



The politics of isolation have been practiced by this church for years, leading the world to believe that WE do not want to know anything about THEM and therefore WE are not important.

So, we should work on this.

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[Fenice]

In your speeches, Brother Kalixtus, two things are missing: the realisation that the population is steadily decreasing, so organising observation networks and filling dioceses and parishes is becoming more and more difficult, and the realisation that if we did politics like politicians, we would not have any particularity to distinguish us, so the Church would become just another political party.

Between isolation and becoming a political party, we must find a third way, which is the way of being the Church, and this is what we must teach people.

Governments, Empire, secular kingdoms do not understand this and try to impose their worldview on us, we must work to spread ours and not bow to secular logic.
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[Kalixtus]

I am inclined to agree with what you said, Sister.

It is precisely for this reason that I consider a spy network to be useful in order to place dioceses under an early warning system and to monitor critical infrastructures.

Above all, this means the borders to dioceses and nations that are heretical. There aren't that many of them.

Compared to a standing army, a spy network costs much less manpower and can be much more efficient in individual cases.

If it is agreed that we only use our modest military forces in a targeted manner and that the states bear the main burden of defense, then this contribution from the Church to general security would certainly be achievable. Especially in view of the reduced resources described above.

The question of policy is also correct. The church cannot pursue the same policy as the state, and it cannot become a party, and if it does, then only in a very specific, strict construction.

I always base my political work inside and outside of states on the maxim of preserving, protecting and increasing the welfare of the Church and its members. But unfortunately, we are in democratic times and monarchies are changing. We are often just one voice in a sea of many voices and THIS is why, and especially THIS is why, we must be flexible, focussed and efficient in our policies and NOT live hidden behind thick walls.

Times will not change, they will wipe us away if we believe that our walls will survive these storms.

We must be part of the reality of people's lives. In the pastoral and in politics.

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