L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Francesco_maria]

"Eminent brothers and sisters, following the update of the list of emeritus it seems evident that some members should be considered definitively inactive and no longer included in the list of cardinals.

Also according to the indication of the Holy Father, the criterion is to "eliminate" cardinals who have been absent not only from Rome but also from the Kingdoms for more than a year. Using this criterion the following cardinals should be removed:

- Aaron de Nagan [ Aaron ]
- Attanasio Borgia [ Attanasio ]
- Palladio Monforte [ Palladio ]
- Rodrigo Manzanarez [ Rodrigomanzanarez ]
- Richard De Cetzes [ Richard.De.Cetzes ]
- Vede [ Vede ]
- Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag [ Kiscsillag. ]

Even if they have not been absent from the Kingdoms for more than a year, there are some who live the Kingdoms daily, but have not been seen in Rome for many years:

- Mrgroar [ MrGroar ]
- Adso [ Adso ]
- Neïrin de Castelcerf [ Neirin ]
- Profeta Pucci Guerra [ Profeta ]

I know that perhaps my proposal may seem radical. But I believe that it can also have a value in the eyes of the clergy and of the entire Holy Church. We are often defined as an immobile institution with always the same faces and when they go to see who these people are they find themselves in front of real "mummies". We know the distinction between cardinals emeritus and non-emeritus, as we also know the distinction between "active emeritus" and "non-active emeritus" in the eyes of the people it seems that there is a large number of cardinals and that the majority of them do nothing.

So the names that I have indicated I propose to remove them from the list of cardinals because they have no reason to exist. This does not mean that they are forgotten or the work done by them is erased but simply it makes no sense to keep them in that status. Obviously mine is a proposal. As per the rules now we have 5 days to discuss it and then we will proceed to the vote."
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[Pie de Valence]

The title was created to recognize the services rendered in the past for those of our cardinals who wished to retire, died or wanted to allow "young people" to become cardinals. I am, as in the past, still opposed to removing this honorary title from them.
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"Le modernisme n'est ni une dérive, ni une horreur, ni une maladie honteuse. C'est le terreau de la rénovation de l'Eglise, la terreur des conservateurs, l'air pur qui vivifiera la foi" (Pie II de Valence)
"On n'est jamais dans le mensonge quand on prêche la paix et l'apaisement, toujours quand on prêche la haine d'autrui" (Pie II de Valence)

[Fenice]

One of the meaning of "emeritus" is "illustrious", so I am against deletion from the group: these are personalities who have given so much to the Church, we cannot forget that.
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[Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia]

If the worldly traces of these cardinals have been lost, why not provide solemn funerals in their honour?
As for those who no longer appear in these halls, I am still undecided and will listen to all the speeches before deciding.
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+ Ettore Asburgo D'Argovia
Cardinale-Presbitero di San Barnaba a Ripa
Decano del Tribunale della Rota Romana
Arcivescovo Metropolitano di Udine
Professore alla Pontifica Universitas Studiorum Aristoteliorum
Ufficiale dell'Ordine pontificio di Nicola V

[pamelita]

As said by Fenice and Pie, I don't find it right to delete the names of those who have made a part of Church history anyway.
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[Roderic_]

An Emeritus should be here and in China, a person who advises from experience. However, here the title has been awarded to all those who have become inactive. Now, according to our Canon Law, all those who are absent must have their permission to enter this College withdrawn, in Article 6.6.

There are many of the cardinals on that list, who I believe are even dead, as they have never returned to answer messages, like Profeta.

I would like to add Pere_Setzefonts to the list already provided. The reason? the player has stopped playing and his account is currently being managed by someone else who knows nothing about our church. In addition to this, he is extremely absent from the Hispanic church, he has not said a single mass and he has not contributed anything here either.
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Cardinal Bishop // Cardinal Vicar Grand Inquisitor // Prelate of Honour of His Holiness //
Archbishop sine cura of Sassari and Urbino // Bishop sine cura of Urgell // Chancellor of the Order of Saint Nicolas V .

[Francesco_maria]

"The case of card. Pere_Setzefonts I think it is appropriate to present it directly to the Holy Father, this is not the right discussion to talk about it.

For the other interventions in my opinion there is a wrong and blind vision. That does not take into account the image that is given of the Holy Church. Someone who is still absent from the Kingdoms for years or, even worse, someone who is active in the Kingdoms but the same absent from Rome for years, what value does he give to the Holy Church?

We make the new arrivals sweat a thousand shirts to complete their studies and obtain diplomas and then block any possibility of a career but they find themselves with a list of cardinals who are half dead. Here we are without practical sense... no longer a Sacred College but a Sacred Crypt with some talking mummies!"
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[Tymothé de Nivellus]

Either we completely question the fact that there are emeritus, or we also accept that they are no longer active, this is in my opinion one of the main reasons why they became emeritus at a given time...

We can possibly say that emeritus must be at least a little active, but once again, all this is relative, if it is to come and chat twice a year to keep the red cassock...

I will surely become emeritus in 1473, I would like not to be ejected so quickly since I am considering a return...

it is a debate that we can have.

But let us really remember that it is above all an honorary title and not a rank within the church... They only have a consultative role and no decision-making role.
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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Francesco_maria]

"It is true what Card. Tymothe says, their role is honorary and they only have a consultative role.

But what advice can they give if they have been absent from our Kingdoms for years and some, even though they frequent the Kingdoms, have no interest in intervening in Rome?

I can accept a Cardinal Emeritus like Card. Heldor or Card. Pie (even if we often do not agree) I appreciate their role because they express their opinion and are present in the Holy Church.

I have nothing against these people who have honorably served the Holy Church, with some of them I have also had the privilege of working together... But what use can a person have who has not said a word for years? I'm not saying to throw them in the garbage pit... I'm saying to find another way to honor them by removing the impression that the Sacred College is a hospice where people come to rest at the end of their career and instead demonstrate that it is the beating heart of the Holy Church where the best and most active devote themselves to the government of the Church and the Aristotelian community."
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[Roderic_]

I agree with Brother Francesco, you cannot keep as a counsellor someone who does not give advice. Because of the seniority of some of the cardinals, another way of recognising their past work for the good of the church could be sought, but we can't keep them in office forever just because of what they did 6 years ago or more.

Concerning Pere, I think that lay people should be considered, because he is a new player who has no knowledge of the church. And we cannot allow that someone who does not know, should be able to perform ceremonies and lead the faithful.
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Cardinal Bishop // Cardinal Vicar Grand Inquisitor // Prelate of Honour of His Holiness //
Archbishop sine cura of Sassari and Urbino // Bishop sine cura of Urgell // Chancellor of the Order of Saint Nicolas V .

[Urbain_mastiggia]

He had caught up with everything, which is crazy. He'd probably had all his work compiled for that purpose.


- I know that the time for debate has passed, but I'd like to add my vision. Until yesterday, I was still a cardinal emeritus. I didn't ask for this emeritus status and I adapted to what Canon Law allowed me, both here and at the AEF. The duty of a cardinal emeritus to advise is not systematic: ‘An absent cardinal emeritus loses his right to vote and access to the Sacred College. He may gain access again by expressing his intention to participate in the work of the Sacred College’. The principle of emeritus is to indicate that these cardinals have made a concrete contribution to our Church, that they are illustrious.


He paused.


- However, I believe that if there is no longer any manifestation of worldly life AND within the Church without prior warning, then there is no longer any need to maintain the person's emeritus status. It's a fact that the external perception of the Church is pretty bad in terms of the number of Cardinals and the overall inactivity of the Congregations. But I don't think we should base our choices on external perception alone. That's why I support the withdrawal of the following proposed cardinals, even though they have all contributed something to the Church: Aaron de Nagan, Attanasio Borgia, Palladio Monforte, Rodrigo Manzanarez, Richard de cetzes, Vede and Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag

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[Francesco_maria]

"The time for debate is over. Since the proposal was divided into two lists and not everyone agrees with the removal, having also heard the opinion of the Pope, we will proceed with two separate votes for the two lists.

The first will contain those who meet the requirements for removal, the second those who, despite being absent from Rome for years, continue their life in the Kingdoms.

The people who will be removed (if they will be removed) will not be forgotten, but a way will be thought of (for example a gallery with their portraits and coats of arms) to celebrate their memory."
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