L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church

[Kalixtus]

On the path that I foresaw at the time, which the Empire is taking due to the less than prudent policy of this body, there is now another point on the escalation scale in the foreseeable future, which Rome will of course accept with iron calm:

The Empire now plans to hand over all In Gratebus dioceses, which may or may not have ended up in the hands of state custody, to any religious group that may be found in the Empire.

This amusing plan can of course be found in the KAP.

So far, and with great certainty, there will be no statement from the CESE, nor do I expect any reaction from this body. Primate Alessandro della Scala will probably not find out about these plans at all, or at some point, and dismiss them as not being part of his job. Lack of leadership and lack of communication seems to have become something of a hobby among clerics in recent times.

However, I would like to point out that this also removes the last chapter of privileges of any kind and that Rome's political influence in the empire is therefore zero or something in the per mille range.

The battle is therefore lost. However, I didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly prepared or willing to fight it.

The next conceivable escalation is then to enforce a ban on the Aristotelian Church. Let's see when that happens.

Happy Sunday to all of you.

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[Francesco_maria]

"Are you not also an archbishop of a diocese within the Empire?

Why, in addition to informing the Sacred College, do you not also inform the Episcopal Assembly of which you are a member by right?"
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[Kalixtus]

Is that your answer and main interest in that issue, Cardinal Francesco? I am irritated, I expected something more eloquent from you instead of marking out some unimportant things.

I am here to inform the Colleagues of Cardinals and not to make the Primates job. Everyone can read the KAP article - also your friend Alessandro della Scala.

I am not his babysitter, but if you try to be his, you are free to inform him. The Primate has a team of five Vice-Primates and since he is silent for all the shit what is going on in the Empire, he probably don't care about that either.

If you want to talk about my decisions instead about the problem, you should find another room for that, Cardinal Francesco, because I have no time to fulfill your needs in wasting time with such quarrels.

If you are here for constructive dialogue - you are welcome.

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[Fenice]

I will make an analysis of why we are ineffective, but you won't like it.
I have been saying for years and years that our problem is individualism: we are incapable of acting as a group, as a team. When a problem arises, we are only capable of blaming a single person who holds a position inherent in the problem, but I have never - and I repeat, never - heard that a single person can do nothing if he or she does not have a group at his or her side to exert pressure and send a signal of strength and consistency.

Sometimes, the individual tries to gain personal merit by acting on his own, but this further weakens the Church, and even in the case of a positive result, it is always a matter of momentary results.

The opinion movement against the Church, religion, dogma, was born years ago and has always grown because it gathers support and the group gets bigger. It puts people in government and command posts, where decisions are made. We have been unable to respond to this, we have been unable to collectively devise and practise a strategy. And this is everyone's fault, not the fault of a single person.

Do you want a proposal? Write documents, preach, be close to the people, behave properly as individuals and as a group, be cohesive and support each other instead of trying to outdo each other for office.
But it is late.
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[Francesco_maria]

"My question was a legitimate one. I have never babysat Mgr. Della Scala. I am his friend as I am with many others including you who are the one I love the most.

If I see a problem that concerns my Episcopal Assembly I share it I do not keep it to myself hoping that something bad will happen so that I can then blame him. This is a childish attitude perhaps you need a babysitter (if you need I can do it).

Anyway, getting serious, even though Cardinal Fenice and I often have different positions, I agree with the content of his speech.
Instead of accusing me of not saying anything, why have you not presented ideas to this Sacred College to try to improve the situation?

We all know that the situation with the Empire is critical and has been dragging on for years. Certainly the "brilliant" intervention of Cardinal Cesare.Alexandre has certainly helped to worsen the situation but I am convinced that a way to dialogue can always be found.

Other ways can also be thought of. I don't think all the provinces are so flattened by the Empire's will to take over the IG dioceses. I think good relationships can be built.
From what I can see, there are no other cults in the Empire that are pushing to have IG control of the dioceses or to have space, except for the case of the area of ​​Styria/Austria (if I'm not mistaken) which has been in the hands of this Fugger church for years. So basically, if the news were true, I see it only as an act of "war" against us, not as a real way to free the cult in the Empire.

Without a doubt the current ruling class of the Empire is anti-Aristotelian. We certainly cannot deny that we too have made choices to make ourselves unpopular but it seems ridiculous to me not to try to talk to each other."
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[Ettore_Asburgo_D'Argovia]

I do not know the situation on the other side of the Alps, but it is my opinion that such a request will not be made on Italian soil.
Of course, he who lives by hoping does not often come to a good end, however this evil and completely unprovoked action I think will be ill received by many.

After Cardinal Asburgo d'Argovia had expressed his impression, he thought of trying to suggest a solution.

We don't have many options other than to perhaps ask the KAP for an interview, so that we can clarify our position and come out as well as possible.
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+ Ettore Asburgo D'Argovia
Cardinale-Presbitero di San Barnaba a Ripa
Decano del Tribunale della Rota Romana
Ufficiale dell'Ordine pontificio di Nicola V

[Kalixtus]

Cardinal Ettore, as much as I admire your objections in the Curia—and I really do—I must occasionally restrict them.

Italy, for the overwhelming majority, consists of Imperial Italy and not the Kingdom of Sicily.

Therefore, yes, Italy is the greatest problem in the specter of the Empire, as it has distanced itself the most from the Aristotelian Church compared to all other nations.

This is due, if you all recall, to the excessive behavior of a certain Roman Blood Cardinal who preferred to travel through the Italian lands excommunicating anyone who didn’t kiss his feet.

Of course, he did this on the orders of Rome. The result, which I criticized at the time, was that the Church lost influence and power, and concordats either began to be rewritten or dropped altogether thanks to the decrees and laws of the new imperial elite—completely legally.

The stone that is stuck, therefore, is undoubtedly Italy, which in its size and influence allows the Empire to proceed in its ambitions without comment or objection, because the rulers of Italy have embraced the tenor of this new anti-religious agenda.

So much for that.

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[Cesar.Alexandre]

To Francesco, friendly.

« – No matter how "brilliant" was my intervention, at least, I've tried something else than watching our glorious ship sink and doing nothing except deploring it with my arms folded, sitting on its deck.

What is happening has been planned for a long time. With each reign, the Church is attacked a little more meticulously. Whether we move or not, we will always be under attack. So we might as well defend ourselves with the meagre weapons we have at our disposal.

And at least the Holy Empress's violent reaction to the late President of the Imperial Court had the merit of shocking many people, who took public offence. Proof that all is not totally lost, as long as you know how to find the right people, rally them, motivate them, and do something. »

Smiles. And then, to all.

« – We lost power in the Holy Roman Empire for two reasons.

Firstly, because some of our brothers sometimes behaved in an abusive manner, using their spiritual prerogatives for political ends. This was detrimental to us, as Cardinal Kalixtus rightly reminds us. It was because of this that Italy was lost, and in Savoie it almost cost us our place three years ago, before I arrived.

But on the other hand, we have also abandoned the political arena. We are the class of philosophers, the class called by Aristotle to lead. But we all - or almost all - seem to forget that.

Why didn't Savoy sink into heresy and follow the example of Styria to create its own schismatic church when the opponents of the local military-religious orders, which ruled the province before losing power? Because there was one man who modestly fought tooth and nail, against all odds, to prevent it. He got involved in politics and convinced his opponents not to attack the Church.

And he still does, every day, despite the fact that the main Savoyard leaders are also imperial leaders who want the Church in the Empire, and in Savoy, be destroyed.

But in Savoie, they don't dare, even though they could, because I'm here, defending what's left of our Church, whatever the cost, because I carry enough political weight to dissuade them, and because they also know that nothing will stop me if they attack the Church or me.

When, a few months later, Copona launched his terrible schism, the majority of the council was ready to follow him. And there I was, alone, doing my utmost to ensure that Savoy did not follow this madness, even though an imperial army led by supporters of the schism was at the gates of my diocese. The Duke of Savoy listened to me, and the Church held on in Savoy, still.

I also have to cooperate with them, alas. I don't always like it, sometimes it feels like a kiss from Daju. Sometimes you have to make adjustments. Everyone knows that I'm a radical who doesn't like to make concessions, but you have to be able to do that. Making concessions is not the same as compromising.

If the Church still held out weakly institutionally in the Empire, it was because there were still a few clerics who were politically active here and there, at local or imperial level, and who exercised sufficient influence to prevent heretics or schismatics from seizing power.

Cardinal Kalixtus understood this very well, and that is why the Church was able to have so much influence in Germany for so long, before, unfortunately, we ended up losing some of it too. But unfortunately, when you are alone or almost alone facing a pack, you always end up losing, regardless of your own strength and will. Kalixtus like me are very alone in the Empire.

But for that, we need to get out of our luxurious cardinal or episcopal palaces, which are so comfortable that we are now desperately alone because there is no one left to live there except us and the melancholy memory of the greatness of our Church.

We must agree to roll up our sleeves, put our hands in the mud, and invest in the life of our city. Since we are called according to Aristotle to be the ruling class of cities, then let us behave as such, and let us then strive to truly lead these cities by investing in them, by occupying political offices, and by extending our influence. »

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Sancti Martini ad Ianiculum Cardinalem Diaconum | Archiepiscopus Viennensis

[Kalixtus]

I agree with the analyses of Cardinal Cesar Alexandre on key points.

No one can stop a storm alone. The ongoing distancing of the clergy from political spheres, whether out of laziness, incompetence, inactivity, or intent, is part of the tragic narrative of decline unfolding with this political situation in the Empire.

Anyone who thought that certain cardinals or bishops could handle these conflicts on their own was mistaken, as we can now see. The levees and walls that once managed and structured these situations have irreparably shattered and could not be maintained without the support of other cardinals. Sadly, we have also witnessed that certain clerics at various levels of the hierarchy have revealed themselves as obstacles and saboteurs, who were then called by the Almighty and now leave us alone with numerous problems.

This regrettable yet recurring observation is also part of the issue.

Therefore, if we do not change our current level of inactivity, we will not regain any lost territory.

Where there are large gaps in representation, and where we are absent in teaching and presence, heretics, atheists, and politicians will occupy those spaces.

We must finally understand that we are in a war, and in this war, it is essential to conquer and hold spaces, and to defend them with arms and, if necessary, with the right measure of force.

The time of hidden or active inaction must come to an end once and for all.

I expect active involvement in the development of strategies from all members of the Curia, and this applies to all levels of the hierarchy.

Otherwise, the phenomenon of the Empire will spread like wildfire to all other kingdoms, and there will be nothing left to defend—except that we can then hide here in the Roman ivory tower and wait for the final end.

At that point, the Papal State and the Holy Mother Church will simply be abolished bureaucratically and administratively, and rationalized away by the normative force of facts.

As morbid as some of you may be, this cannot be the wish of the majority.

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[Tymothé de Nivellus]

The problem brother Caesar is that you are Cardinal now... well for a while but you remember it now, since we have sent away several Cardinals... I suppose you will come more often to avoid the same fate. This is my pain...
But, when you say stupid things, they don't have more credibility, but they also impact us... remember that. In some cases, absence is preferable to stupidity.
But, I am not going to give my opinion on your interventions and how you were able to be raised Cardinal, that will remain a mystery to me.

A question that I still wish to raise, it is certainly our main error, we must not be both politicians and/or nobles, bend the knee before the emperor and at the same time be defender of the Faith and often in opposition to the oppressive power of the sovereigns of temporal power!
This is something we should really try to avoid, especially in such complicated regions. It's giving them the stick to hit us since they're playing with it! Being in opposition, they can only resort to aggression and political games against us...

One of the pieces of advice would really be to abandon politics when you are a Cardinal! Already when you are a Bishop it is relatively complicated... but remember that the Empire put us all on a list (the entire curia) while some have never set foot in the Empire... proof that it can quickly go very far. ..
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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Kalixtus]

[Tymothé de Nivellus]

Besides,

I completely understand the remark. However, the interpretation I have of doing politics for the good of the city is not the same as in the temporal political sense, as we experience it today. We can do management politics, but I imagine more the political act itself.

In my opinion, the political act is the set of actions that we can carry out and put in place for the good of society with a view to the common good. It is a commitment to the community, a responsibility to ensure equity, justice and the harmonious development of the city. It is not necessary to join a list, to be a Duke, or a member of a ducal council to take a strong political action!

The political path, for its part, represents the path and the strategies adopted to achieve these objectives. It is the way in which ideas and ideals are translated into concrete actions, public policies and reforms. It is a journey often strewn with pitfalls, requiring perseverance, dialogue and compromise. And unfortunately, too regularly, the political path takes precedence over the religious path, which I deplore! When there is too much involvement in politics, we lose credibility because we cannot defend all citizens (a large part of our faithful). We create team coalitions, with political oppositions... This is how we find ourselves in a rejection of part of society!

By having a more thoughtful involvement and moving towards the political act and not along the political path, I am convinced that we can change the way current society views us!

Perhaps we need to continually ask ourselves this question.
If it offers better thinking, then that's positive. If it divides, it's not good for us!
Being in politics regularly pushes us to be at the center.
On the one hand, a King who directs and imposes, if we are against it we lose a lot... we must be able to accept it! If we do not oppose, the political path has taken over?!
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Père Tymothé de Nivellus | Cardinal-Evêque de Saint Trufaldini à la Porte Latine | Camerlingue de Rome et Chancelier de la Chambre Apostolique | Archevêque SC d'Avignon et Archevêque d'Embrun
"La puissance de Dieu donne toute sa mesure dans la faiblesse"
Cabinet du Cardinal

[Kalixtus]

I can understand some aspects of your words, dear colleague.

We have a disagreement in our analysis of the issue. I see that politics largely happens without the involvement of the clergy. At least, this is what I observe in the Empire.

The result is that the more the clergy has been pushed out of politics, the worse and more invasive the politics of the provinces and the Empire have become toward the clergy and Rome. The reduction of privileges and influence has become more creative, not just in politics, but in society as a whole.

Therefore, I come to the conclusion that the withdrawal of the clergy from the political landscape has cost us a central voice and thus the attention of politics.

Meanwhile, loud voices of heresy and schismatics have been heard, even though, in total, they are insignificant.

Five loud heretics are heard, while a hundred silent Aristotelians remain mute.

I believe the solution, of course, lies somewhere between the extremes. A cleric must not neglect his role as a cleric in favor of worldly politics and power. But neither should he become a hermit who loses touch with the world and withdraws from all political and societal processes because they might influence him.

Both are forms of egocentrism, which are sinful.

In light of the current situation, I advocate that clerics participate more in the political and social structures of the world and reclaim the voice they have lost.

This requires presence, not necessarily power and influence, but one must make their existence known. Bishops are shepherds of many sheep; they must be visible and active on the ground. Otherwise, their absence will be interpreted as silence, both by heretics and by the faithful, and both lead to the dangerous conditions in which our Church finds itself.

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[Fenice]

What exactly do you mean, Brother Kalixtus, by the words ‘participate more in the political and social structures of the world’?
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[Kalixtus]

Everything that is needed to be present and to express to the people that we are present, that we care, that we are not weak, small or faded away, every opportunity to spread faith, knowledge, wisdom and church interests and become part of social interaction (communities, gatherings, meetings, councils), cultural interaction (feasts, celebrations, theaters, gatherings), political interaction (debates, interactions, public opposition towards political decisions or support, also being part of political structures if needed, creating an Aristotelian list in the provinces if needed, etc.), religious interaction (catechesis, pastorale, festivities, etc.).

There must be immediate reactions and not laziness and reactions in months to things happening in the past. There must be a quick and fast interaction, and you need to create a group of supporters as minions to give the impression that you are not alone. You speak for people, and they are wrong while you are right.

Again - this is war. If you come too late, if you come unarmed, if you come with ideology, if you pest the world with useless stuff, YOU WILL LOSE.

We have one interesting thing across the continent - the clever politicians of the past are all gone. Today, the politicians are much easier to get to deal with it. So older and wiser people, like us, could deal with those better, but we need to get motivated to fight for this church and not to sitting around and watching how things are falling into ruins.

Clerics tend to become lazy, they not work to be with the people, they tend to wait that people come to the church.

In that way, people will not come, and they will not care. They might think we are faded away, we are lost, we are not there to help, to carry, care and work with and for the people. Our job is not to wait for things to happen, pray and if someone surprisingly came to our doors to get baptized, we get into the work mode - no that's not the correct way.

Our job is to spread the faith wherever and whenever we can.

I think that politicians and heretics are growing in those spots, where the clerics give those people the room for it.

That is the domino effect that cast troubles everywhere.

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