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L'Eglise Aristotelicienne Romaine The Roman and Aristotelic Church
Forum RP de l'Eglise Aristotelicienne du jeu en ligne RR
Forum RP for the Aristotelic Church of the RK online game
 
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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 Posté le: Sam Mai 03, 2014 9:14 pm Sujet du message: |
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« - Alright. I don't know anything about the Hungarian situation so let's wait HE Egal who is the most competent person to help me understanding your problems. »
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Egal
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2009
Messages: 5380
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Kiscsillag.
Cardinal
Inscrit le: 13 Déc 2013
Messages: 1159
Localisation: Hungary
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| Posté le: Mar Mai 06, 2014 7:08 am Sujet du message: |
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Dear HE Egal,
I tried to inform You about the current situation of the heresy of Sava in the Hungarian Kingdom above. I really don't know what was the last information that the Church got from our side.
We need Your help, advices about what shall be our next step.
To be honest, I feel a little bit lost, I just speak English and Hungarian, and just got my diploma for Missus inquisitionis, I really don't know how shall I continue my way. As you probably know there is no inquisitor in our Kingdom yet.
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SE Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag
Cardinal-Presbyter Emeritus of the Papal Consistory of Central and Eastern Europe
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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| Posté le: Mar Mai 06, 2014 12:17 pm Sujet du message: |
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« - Sister, YE Egal, I don't know the Hungarian situation at all. I couldn't do anything personally but I can help you in other ways if you have suggestions. But I also would like to know what do the Hungarian bishops think. »
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Egal
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2009
Messages: 5380
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| Posté le: Mar Mai 06, 2014 5:49 pm Sujet du message: |
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We can try to involve H. Em. Renegade and H. Em. Vede, who know the problem as well as me or maybe better: they were my "informers" and depicted the situation as much as they could.
Dear Brother - I'm talking to You, Arnault - the events started from a pronouncement made long time ago by the Cardinal's College, whose members excommunicated the formerly known priest named "Aranykorona", the most influential cardinal of the Eastern Countries. He seemed to work for the goodness of the Holy Church, but he was building his personal faithful community instead, planning to make a schismatic institution.
His Eminence Quarion, who was the Camerlengue, listened to the voices about that cleric and made an investigation, which confirmed the situation, so he removed the Eastern cardinal and put him on trial, reaching a sentence of removal from the Church ranks forever. But he changed his name in disguise and restarted slowly his network of underrunning relationships, as the character named "Sava", strongly connected with the political forces growing into the Hungarian and Serbian lands (i.e.: he tried also to convince the Hungarian Kingdom to officially break their Concordate and - for a short time - he seemed to have reached the goal!).
Now, these from Our Sister are the most recent news I have got since months.
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H. Em. Edoardo Borromeo Galli
Bishop In Partibus of Beyrouth
Roman Emeritus Cardinal
Archiexorcist
old:http://i67.tinypic.com/254zdoz.png
older: http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5503/egal2.gif |
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Kiscsillag.
Cardinal
Inscrit le: 13 Déc 2013
Messages: 1159
Localisation: Hungary
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| Posté le: Mer Mai 07, 2014 6:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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I asked H. Em. Renegade to join us, he will do it as soon as he will have time.
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SE Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag
Cardinal-Presbyter Emeritus of the Papal Consistory of Central and Eastern Europe
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Renegade
Inscrit le: 28 Avr 2011
Messages: 651
Localisation: Esztergom - Hungarian Kingdom
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| Posté le: Jeu Mai 08, 2014 6:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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Honorable Sisters and Brothers,
Sister Kiscsillag is right, the current situation is the one she wrote above. Please assist us, how can we eradicate heresity from our kingdom, and what should be the process of it. We hope that as a start Kiscsillag as a missus inquisitionis can begin her work soon, but because we don't have any experience we will need help. This heresy is way too big to be handled easily.
We, all of hungarian clergy would be very thankful for your helping hand.
Almighty be with you.
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Bishop of Pécs |
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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| Posté le: Jeu Mai 08, 2014 6:58 pm Sujet du message: |
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« - All right. Sure I will appoint Kiscsillag as inquisitor. Could you confirm me you got your diploma from the seminar in Fornovo?
The first council I could give you to improve the situation is to see with the politic authorities. Is your count/duke an Aristotelician? Does your province owns a concordat? »
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Kiscsillag.
Cardinal
Inscrit le: 13 Déc 2013
Messages: 1159
Localisation: Hungary
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| Posté le: Jeu Mai 08, 2014 8:53 pm Sujet du message: |
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Thank you!
Here is my diploma
| Franciscus_Bergoglio a écrit: | | Citation: | Notabili, Prelati, Chierici,
Noi, Padre Franciscus Bergoglio, Professore del Seminario San Bernardo, in questo giorno XXIX del mese IV dell'anno di grazia MCDLXII, desideriamo portare alla vostra conoscenza i seguenti fatti:
Per nostro mandato della Congregazione della Santa Inquisizione, noi concediamo al seminarista kiscsillag, un certificato provante che il seminarista ha appreso le informazioni per essere elevato alla carica di Missus Inquisitionis avendo egli passato con successo il seminario di Procuratorato Inquisitoriale e dato prova della sua Fede nell'Altissimo.
Una Chiesa efficace è una Chiesa che conosce il suo dogma, il suo Diritto Canonico e la sua liturgia. Per grazia di Aristotele, di Christos e di Sant'Arnvald, che Fede e Ragione possano guidarci.
Il Capitolo Generale dell'Abbazia, ha approvato questo seminario ed il suo insegnamento e per aumentare il riconoscimento della presente, abbiamo deciso di confermarla con la nostra mano e di firmarla con l'impressione di sigillo del nostro ordine
Fatto nell'Abbazia di Fornovo in Fornovo, in questo giorno XXIX del mese IV dell'anno di grazia MCDLXII
Padre Franciscus Bergoglio, Professore del Seminario San Bernardo
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Our new Count is H.Em. Renegade from the beginning of May.
Yes, we have a concordat since the 23rd of December, 1457.
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SE Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag
Cardinal-Presbyter Emeritus of the Papal Consistory of Central and Eastern Europe
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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| Posté le: Jeu Mai 08, 2014 10:04 pm Sujet du message: |
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« - Well, if I read the concordat : »
| Citation: | I.6. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that other spiritual movements not recognized as religions tolerated by the concordat are regarded as pagan cults and may be practiced only in a private and individual manner. Any public ceremony or preaching (eatery, market… etc.) by these cults shall be considered as heresy.
V.1. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the crime of heresy is recognized as disturbing public order, because it is a divine and human crime of lese-majesty, a violation against the foundations of royal power. It will be tried by a religious court which may apply punishments specific to the Aristotelian religious courts, as set out by canon law. It is the responsibility of the infidels and of the heretic religions not to act manner which violates the concordat tolerance.
V.2. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that in case of refusal to apply the punishment decreed by the ecclesiastical court, a convict may be brought before the local civil court, and must comply with the sentence imposed by the lay judge, itself in compliance with the request of the ecclesiastical procedure. |
« - I.6. and V.1. allow you to make a religious trial. If the accused person don't come to the trial you condemn him by contumacy. And if he doesn't respect the verdict V.2. allows you to make an IG trial. So you just have to make sure the political power will help you, then it seems an easy solution. What do you think ? »
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Kiscsillag.
Cardinal
Inscrit le: 13 Déc 2013
Messages: 1159
Localisation: Hungary
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 09, 2014 9:15 pm Sujet du message: |
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It's a good idea, but as I count there would be at least 10-15 person, who are openly following the heretics. And half of them is from the main party of the last council, who are now in minority, half of them are Sava/Aranykorona/Analise's friends... Do you think we can take them under control for a longer period?
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SE Vidigueira-Szapáry Kiscsillag
Cardinal-Presbyter Emeritus of the Papal Consistory of Central and Eastern Europe
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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| Posté le: Sam Mai 10, 2014 10:17 am Sujet du message: |
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« - If the majoritarian party is now aritotelician, if the Count/Duke support you, you have a great opportunity to control them. Explain him/her the concordat is like a law, so he can applicate it. »
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Ysabet
Inscrit le: 29 Mai 2011
Messages: 3794
Localisation: Sacrum Romanorum Imperium Nationis Germanicæ - Herzogtum von Bayern - Regensburg
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| Posté le: Dim Mai 11, 2014 9:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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I can not read the Concordate. Can we publish it openly in the rooms of the Nuntiature with the other Concordates? Or is it secret?
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Roman Cardinal Emeritus
Bishop In Partibus of Cydonia |
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Arnault d'Azayes
Inscrit le: 08 Mar 2011
Messages: 16126
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| Posté le: Dim Mai 11, 2014 10:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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Here is a copy.
| Citation: |
CONCORDAT BETWEEN THE KINGDOM OF HUNGARY AND ROME
| Citation: | I. The church's role in the spiritual life of the county.
I.1. By this Concordat, the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church is recognized as the entirely undisputed legitimate religion and as the only officially Church of the Hungarian Kingdom.
I.2. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary recognition of the unique role of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church in the provision of spiritual counsel to the community.
I.3. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary the free practice by members of the Holy Universal Roman and Aristotelian Church of faith, and obligations of faith, without obstacle and impositions contrary to precepts of its faith.
I.4. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Aristotelian Church has the inalienable right to own and maintain a church in every village and a cathedral in every diocese.
I.5. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Kingdom of Hungary recognizes the primacy of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church, and as the heresy of the heretic religions of Spinozism and Averoïsme is limited, they shall be tolerated in the Kingdom of Hungary but subjected to specific regulation and limitation. The agreement of the local bishop is necessary.
I.6. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that other spiritual movements not recognized as religions tolerated by the concordat are regarded as pagan cults and may be practiced only in a private and individual manner. Any public ceremony or preaching (eatery, market… etc.) by these cults shall be considered as heresy. |
| Citation: | II. The Church's role in the temporal organization of the county.
II.1. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that a place as observer is reserved in the town council for the local priest or his deputy and in the Council (Kamara) for the local bishop or his deputy. They will be able, to participate actively to the proceedings to defend the church's interests.
II.2. By this Concordat it is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the ecclesiastics of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church who participate in civic office do not reveal any information that could imply civil security breach, and keep the authorities informed of conspiracies heard. However if the information known by the ecclesiastics could endanger Rome and the Church’s interests, are contrary to the church values, or are obtained under the secrecy of confession, then civic authorities not accuse the said ecclesiastics. In case of serious conflict between civic authorities and Rome the Council can vote the temporary exclusion of the ecclesiastical observer from the Council. |
| Citation: | III. The church's role in the temporal life
III.1. By this Concordat it is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that Aristotelian weddings are the only legal marriages. A deed may be kept in the county's registers. It is the Church's representatives' responsibility to provide a copy of the Aristotelian marriage deed.
III.2. By this Concordat it is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church has a mission to help the most deprived. As such, the church's representatives shall actively participate to help the people and as much as possible coordinate their efforts with the temporal authorities.
III.3. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church has a mission to participate as actively as possible to the people’s education. It can be done mainly in the university but the ecclesiastics can teach outside the university in their town.
III.4. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church has a mission to bury the dead and to give them the last sacraments, so long as such rites do not violate any current Church Canons or Dogma. (such as issuing said rites to open heretics or those in anathema.)
III.5. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that members of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church clergy are allowed to join and promote political parties and to stand for office. However, they are always to keep the matters of the church as the top priority, they should conduct themselves in a manner suitable for men of the Lord in all debates and in office.
III.6. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that being head of a list for an election, holding a title of nobility and the status of elected Nador means being a faithful Aristotelian.
III.7. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that Any cancellation or modification of this concordat necessarily requires the agreement of both parties (Rome and the Council). |
| Citation: | IV. The church functioning
IV.1. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church is represented by the Holy Pope. The Roman Curia is decision-making body of the Church. The bishops and cardinals designed in accordance with the Roman canon law and the dogma oversees the functioning of the local church. Each bishop nominates his priests and his diocese's council.
IV.2 By this Concordat it is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the respect of the ecclesiastic hierarchy shall be respected for all relations between the Church and the temporal authorities.
IV.3. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the Council agree to give financial loans at zero percent to religious persons requesting assistance in order to be able to undertake theological studies (passing to level 3). The terms of the contract between the lender and the borrower will be fixed in writing, and must contain the permission of the competent bishop. The beneficiary is engaged to start the Church’s service in a minimum time of 3 months. |
| Citation: | V. The Church and Justice
V.1. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that the crime of heresy is recognized as disturbing public order, because it is a divine and human crime of lese-majesty, a violation against the foundations of royal power. It will be tried by a religious court which may apply punishments specific to the Aristotelian religious courts, as set out by canon law. It is the responsibility of the infidels and of the heretic religions not to act manner which violates the concordat tolerance.
V.2. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that in case of refusal to apply the punishment decreed by the ecclesiastical court, a convict may be brought before the local civil court, and must comply with the sentence imposed by the lay judge, itself in compliance with the request of the ecclesiastical procedure.
V.3. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that grievous punishments, such as burning in a public place, will be subject to the authorization of the Nador. |
| Citation: |
VI. The Church and the army
VI.1. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that vidames are permitted in the Kingdom of Hungary. The vidames are under the authority of their archbishop within the limits specified by canon law. Their fiefdoms shall be governed by ecclesiastical geographic divisions. They may have under their authority two soldiers per village and four per capital. They may erect one stronghold that will be all recognized as legal military organization.
VI.2. By this Concordat is established in the Kingdom of Hungary that religious military orders, recognized by Rome, are allowed but must not undertake any action against the interests of the Kingdom of Hungary. The construction of strongholds for armed religious orders is subject to authorization by the Nador. |
23th December MCDLVII
In the name of the Kingdom of Hungary:
Mons. Crepitus Festetics nador
Countess Monyoka Zichy governor
Countess Egyszervolt Nádasdy councillor
In the name of the Holy Universal and Roman Aristotelian Church:
SE Dunpeal Godwin de Avis
Archdeacon of Rome
Prelate Plenipotentiary
Monsignor Giacomo Borgia also known as “Marves”,
Archbishop of Pisa,
Apostolic Protonotary,
Pontificale Secretary
Monsignor Lior_asteras Ozorai
Vice-primate,
Archbishop of Esztergom
Monsignor Norbertus
Bishop of Veszprém
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Mort des cardinaux von Frayner et d'Azayes |
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Ysabet
Inscrit le: 29 Mai 2011
Messages: 3794
Localisation: Sacrum Romanorum Imperium Nationis Germanicæ - Herzogtum von Bayern - Regensburg
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| Posté le: Dim Mai 11, 2014 10:42 pm Sujet du message: |
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Thanks. And I also think it would be a good idea to tell the duke what the Concordate obliges him to.
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Roman Cardinal Emeritus
Bishop In Partibus of Cydonia |
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